“If you’re not rich, blame yourself” (Herman Cain vs. John Wesley)

“If you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself.” Thus says Herman Cain to the unemployed Wall Street protestors. I understand why he said it. He wants to live in a world where the American Dream works, where being optimistic and entrepreneurial and hard-working guarantees success. Cain wants for blame to be something that is distributed neatly and perfectly between individual people. This could be described as an ethic of individual responsibility.

In a different context, Cain credits God’s grace for his fortune: “As you get older, your faith gets stronger because of your own personal experiences where you know the only way you could have made it through some of those personal experiences was by the grace of God.” This way of understanding our dependence on God’s grace is often termed the doctrine of divine providence.

The question is whether these two belief systems are compatible. Can you say at the same time that people are individually responsible for their success or failure but then credit their success to the grace of God? I would argue that the humility of knowing your dependence on God’s grace ought to keep you from saying something like “If you’re not rich, blame yourself.” If you really believe that you stand on God’s grace, that means your work ethic, intelligence, and creativity are to God’s credit, not yours, which disqualifies using these qualities as a soapbox from which to judge other people. A lot of Christians want to get credit for the humility of believing in divine providence while retaining the right to judge others based on an ethic of individual responsibility.

John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, lived in a very different time than ours. He framed his entire theology around the concept of divine providence. His understanding of our dependence on God led him to believe that the rich were supposed to take care of the poor. Instead of saying, “If you’re not rich, blame yourself,” Wesley said, “If I die rich, blame me.” Here’s exactly how he put it in 18th century language: “If I leave behind me ten pounds [when I die]… you and all mankind bear witness against me, that I have lived and died a thief and a robber.” Wesley believed that there was nothing wrong with making money as long as you spent all of it helping the poor after “supplying thy own reasonable wants, together with those of thy family.”

In his sermon “The More Excellent Way,” Wesley explains that all wealth belongs to God and is given to those who have it for the purpose of taking care of others:

You may consider yourself as one in whose hands the Proprietor of heaven and earth and all things therein has lodged a part of his goods, to be disposed of according to his direction. And his direction is, that you should look upon yourself as one of a certain number of indigent persons who are to be provided for out of that portion of His goods wherewith you are entrusted.

Wesley assumed that being truly dependent on God’s grace meant seeing ourselves as “indigent persons” (poor). People who have money have the God-given responsibility to help those who don’t. If Christians lived according to Wesley’s vision, none of us would have financial security but it wouldn’t matter because everyone would trust God and lean on each other. When Wesley saw that members of his Methodist movement were adding small luxuries to their life as they increased their wealth, he ripped into them in his “Causes of the Inefficacy of Christianity”:

But you say, you can ‘afford’ it! O be ashamed to take such miserable nonsense into your mouths…. Can any steward ‘afford’ to be an errant knave? To waste his Lord’s goods? Can any servant ‘afford’ to lay out his master’s money any other wise than his master appoints him?

Wesley was utterly scandalized that anyone could spend more money than necessary on themselves. He contradicts the views of people like Herman Cain most squarely when he blames the rich among his followers for the plight of their poor brethren:

Many of your brethren, beloved of God, have not food to eat; they have not raiment to put on; they have not a place where to lay their head. And why are they thus distressed? Because you impiously, unjustly, and cruelly detain from them what your Master lodges in your hands on purpose to supply their wants!

Whereas today wealth is supposedly the measure of hard work and diligence, in Wesley’s sermon “The Mystery of Iniquity,” he writes that poverty is the greatest virtue:

As long as the Christians in any place were poor they were devoted to God. While they had little of the world they did not love the world; but the more had of it the more they loved it. This constrained the Lover of their souls at various times to unchain their persecutors, who by reducing them to their former poverty reduced them to their former purity. But still remember: riches have in all ages been the bane of genuine Christianity.

I’m sure that somebody will say Wesley was just an oddball and he certainly was, but his views on wealth and poverty are far closer to the  norm of historical Christianity than our age’s view that wealth shows our virtue. For most of Christian history, poverty was idealized because it meant putting your full trust in God. Part of the difference between Wesley’s vantage point and ours is that he was writing in a time when the values of capitalism were only starting to replace the values of feudalism that had preceded them.

The glue that held the feudal order together was the doctrine of divine providence, the idea that everything in creation belonged to God and everyone had a place within this order. The king’s privilege and power were accompanied by an awesome responsibility for his subjects, each of whom had a certain acreage of land to tend for God and their king. If kings were not so easily corrupted by their power, then this order grounded in divine providence might have worked. Because divine providence was associated with the corruption of feudal Christendom, the presumptions that frame our secular society and free-market economy push in the entirely opposite direction.

The ethic of individual responsibility that people like Herman Cain are trying to make “Christian” is actually the core of the secular humanist response to feudal Christendom’s understanding of divine providence. It is secular to think of our wealth as something we’ve earned and can use how we please instead of seeing it as a gift from God to use for His purpose. It doesn’t mean anything to piously credit your fortune to “the grace of God” unless you really see it as an unmerited gift. So many Christians today want to talk one way when the topic is economics and another way when the topic is religion.

John Wesley really believed that God has given us everything we have to share with others. And while I don’t think we should return to feudalism, I do think that divine providence lays the foundation for a better world than the world of individual responsibility we have now. It’s also more honest. As Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 4:7, “What do you have that you did not receive? And if you received it, why do you boast as if it were not a gift?” Everything that we have ever accomplished is the result of skills and habits that were cultivated in us through the guidance of parents, teachers, and mentors over the course of our life. To falsely individualize our accomplishments is to mock all the people who have made us who we are and the God who has worked through all who helped us because He loves us. We are the product of a community investment in our success ordered by the “invisible hand” of divine providence.

In one sense, Herman Cain is right. As Christians, we shouldn’t blame anyone else if we’re not rich; we should instead thank God for sparing us the treacherous temptations of wealth. The richer we are, the more we should blame ourselves if people around us are suffering because we haven’t shared what God gave us to share with them. In truth though, “blame” shouldn’t be part of Christian vocabulary. Jesus took the blame on the cross so that we could simply be grateful as the foundation for everything we do with whatever God has given us to share.

—-
Morgan Guyton is the associate pastor of Burke United Methodist Church in Burke, Virginia, and a Christian who continues to seek God’s liberation from the prison of self-justification Jesus died to help him overcome. Morgan’s blog “Mercy Not Sacrifice” is located at http://morganguyton.wordpress.com.

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Morgan Guyton

Morgan GuytonMorgan Guyton is the associate pastor of Burke United Methodist Church in Burke, Virginia, and a Christian who continues to seek God’s liberation from the prison of self-justification Jesus died to help him overcome. Morgan’s blog “Mercy Not Sacrifice” is located at http://morganguyton.wordpress.com. Follow Morgan on twitter at www.twitter.com/maguyton.View all posts by Morgan Guyton →

  • Bert

    very well said. thanks!

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  • http://twitter.com/DocMartinTrench Martin Trench

    You
    Christians who have successfully built up a business using wise management
    principles should be ashamed of yourself for having money. After all – Solomon,
    Abraham, Jacob, etc were all poor (…. did I get that wrong?); You anarchists
    who spend your days hanging around Wall Street protesting instead of working
    should congratulate yourself on being like Jesus who organised protests against
    the oppressive Roman government outside Pontius Pilate’s palace (… didn’t
    he?), and Paul told us that “if a man shall not work but rather protest,
    let him be provided for by those who do work”, and “if anyone does
    not provide for his own family, but instead protests about fat-cats, he is much
    better than those infidels”, (… or, maybe I have misquoted those
    verses).

     

    Last week
    RLC told me that I should feel shame for being born white – today it is for
    earning a decent income. (sigh) 

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Rogers/100000502661790 Mike Rogers

      Not one of your examples of the “rich” in the Bible were Christians. They were however covenant people of God. Just not this covenant. The new covenant is much more concerned about caring for others than the old. Paul, whom you correctly quoted, was the same Paul who was constantly taking offering for the poor back in Jerusalem for those who wanted to work but were not able to physically or because there was not work available. You responded well as a cirtic of the Occupy Movement but not Wesley or this article.

      • http://twitter.com/DocMartinTrench Martin Trench

        That’s right – THE CHURCH – took offerings for the poor – they didn’t promote a socialist government to legal rob succesfull people of their income in order to “redistribute” the wealth – that is marxism, not Christianity. 

        • Anonymous

          Why is what I’m saying in disagreement with what you’re saying? The reason the church outsourced our Biblical role to care for the poor to the government in the first place was because Christians were seduced by the secular humanist ethic of individual responsibilty. Individualism has no place in Christianity. We are a body. Christ showed us mercy so that we would be merciful. That’s how caring for people is supposed to happen. When we stop seeing the body of Christ as a body and instead as a gathering of individuals who don’t share responsibility for each other, then we abdicate our Biblical duty to the state and blaspheme the name of God.

          • Bernhe

            Morgan, you really got it right, in my opinion, on this reply.  ” When we stop seeing the body of Christ as a body and instead as a gathering of individuals”…Unfortunately our culture is very indivigualistic and it hard for people to recognize that it hinders the function of the body of Christ. 
            You point out that what you said was not in disagreement.  Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe you did not make your point clear?  I was very surprised when you identified yourself as conservative in another response.  Could have fooled me. 
            Maybe if people comunicated more and critisized less we might find ourselves more in agreement and get more done. 
            I like your point that the Church has outsourced it role to the government.  Big costly mistake. 

             

          • Anonymous

            My hope is that we will one day reach the point where we can all say let’s be dedicated disciples of Jesus Christ who simply pursue holiness and justice and reject the world’s labels and boundaries. Many of today’s “conservatives” are defending Enlightenment thinking which is no friend to Christianity. The same thinking that created capitalism and individualism also created secularism. Because of the legacy of the Cold War, we’re used to seeing the world as a binary opposition between communism and capitalism. Communism was an attempt to do by force, without God, from above what can only happen by God’s grace voluntarily from below. As such, it as absolutely antithetical to Christianity. But that doesn’t mean that the Enlightenment’s functionally atheistic individualism and Darwinian survival of the fittest are somehow “Christian” by default. We need to go back deeper than the Enlightenment if we want to be true conservatives.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/6TMWGADCHW3VVQNLI3PRTGFSRY Cynthia

          Nope, that’s not Marxism. Mr. Trench, from your comments, I imagine you’ve never read Marx. Marxism posits that the industrial workers of the world will take over their capitalist overlords, and create a utopian socialist, and then communist society. Marxism focuses on history as scientifically determined and leading inevitably to communism. In other words, it does not focus on the redistribution of wealth; in fact the redistribution of wealth might conflict with Marxism because it would reduce the revolutionary zeal of the industrial proletariat.

          You also mentioned a socialist government; to what socialist government do you refer? Socialist governments do not believe in personal property or free trade, and they control all major industries. Not even the welfare states of Norway, Sweden, and Finland have socialist governments. Surely you’re not trying to infer that the U.S. is turning into a socialist state?

          “To legally rob successful people of their income” is a an inflammatory statement, and subject to debate. How a free people vote in democratic processes to promote their own welfare through taxation is not legal robbery; at least, it’s no more legal robbery than the rich using their wealth to bend those democratic processes to their own benefit. After all, there’s a reason the top 1% have done so very well over the past 30 years, while the wealth and wages of the remaining 99% has stagnated or declined.

      • http://twitter.com/DocMartinTrench Martin Trench

        I think you better go back and read the Old Testament – you will find hundreds of verses about caring for the poor. You will also find verses on property ownership and wise business principles. Maybe you should also read the parable of the talents – an evil Capitalist parable if ever their was one…… except Jesus taught it. 

    • Anonymous

      You haven’t heard me right. It is not about shame. It’s about stewardship. John Wesley also famously said “Gain all you can; save all you can; give all you can.” Wesley made a lot of money but he really did consider it to belong to God so he gave almost all of it away. And he didn’t give it away flippantly. He invested in people setting up cottage industries and creating work opportunities all the things that “job creators” today supposedly do. I do know of entrepreneurs today who really do consider themselves to be stewards of God’s money and get satisfaction out of creating jobs. But too many are content to own that self-image while they play poker with the stock market. Bottom line is God is the source of everything good that we have and everything good that we have ever done. Living in this gratitude means we can’t really call what we own private property since it belongs to God.

      • Anonymous

        PS what’s with the “you anarchists” label? Do you really think the world is that binary? I preached a sermon Sunday on how we do things differently in the kingdom of God than the way worldly people protest. Which “us and them” category are you using to define yourself?

    • Grace

      The last sentence summed it up for me…”Jesus took the blame on the cross so that we could simply be grateful as the foundation for everything we do with whatever God has given us to share.”

  • Ccurle

    Awesome

  • Gainfully Employed

    The Wall Street Protesters are not poor. They are spoiled anarchists who live off of the government and are organized by elements of the media/democratic party conglomerate. They don’t want jobs. They want to win political points for Obama and shift the focus off of his failed presidency. Based on a lot of the articles I’ve read on this site, the contributers here have the same goals.

    Now Herman Cain is a rich man. He is a successful man. He has worked hard throughout his life and contibutes his success to the grace of God. What part of that can you honestly have an issue with? Does your issue henge on the fact that Cain recognizes the blessings of God or that he is actually rich? I think I know the answer. Isn’t jealousy wrong?

    Another thing, this site is all about “helping the poor.” Would someone please explain to me how they believe redistributing wealth helps the poor? Please, because I’m at a complete loss here, and history isn’t giving me any examples of success.

    As conservatives, we too feel compassion for mankind. We too believe in the commandment of loving one’s neighbor and caring for the world’s widows and orphans and those who cannot help themselves. But the difference is, those are responsibilities of the church, not the government. This site seems to forget that there is a difference between the church and the government. Obama is not the messiah. You guys know this, right? The government’s job is to get out of the way of human progress and let the innovative spirit of man lead to a greater quality of life for the greatest number of people. Under this environment, it becomes easier for those who work hard to earn a living and provide for their family. Isn’t that what true compassion is? Allowing people to help themselves and removing their dependency.

    And then the circular logic comes back around. Leftists, regardless of whether they put a religious spin on their arguments or not all want the same thing. They don’t want the advancement of mankind but the opposite. They want to punish success through redistribution so they don’t have to work. They want to constantly agitate for “social change” because by calling everyone racists they can further their own political goals. Leftists like to ignore human nature and advocate completely insane policies that grow the size of government and limit human freedom. The list can go on…

    The challenge remains. Please explain to me how giving away your money, either individually, or as the leftists would like, to the government, you can end poverty?

     

    • Anonymous

      Please go back and read this piece again without making the assumption that it’s somehow written in “support” of the Wall Street protests. It’s not about that. It’s about being grateful stewards which many true conservatives (including myself) are capable of. There’s a difference between that and the championing of self-interest which is neither conservative nor Christian.

      • Gainfully Employed

        But you write with the assumption that being a business owner means you are completely self-interested. Whether you mean to or not you have completely villianized the producers of progess in the world. The majority of employers in the U.S. are small-business owners. Regular men and women who work hard and raise their families. To somehow say that they don’t care for the poor because they aren’t giving away their hard earned cash is ridiculous. Nevermind the fact that Americans are by far the most generous givers to charities.

        I know a lot of businessmen and the vast majority of them are not these greedy, vile individuals who want to earn loads of cash and hoarde it in these giant mansions while the unclean masses beg outside. They are regular people who love to hire people because it means their business is growing. And they love seeing their business grow because they are living the life they were called to live and they are seeing the blessings of God on their life. They don’t credit their success to themselves but to God. The free market system which has been wildly distorted and their own hard work allows them to live that life. That being said, there is such a thing as private property in this country. Whether or not they want to give away their cash is their decision alone.

        Wesley was a great man. There is no denying that. But Wesley was not Jesus. And to somehow make the assertion that those who work in business and become successful are somehow not Christian or less-Christian or not good charitable enough astouds me. Salvation is through faith alone. Not through giving away cash to the poor. You say your article is about being a good steward of what God gives you. I agree, we should be. But lining up and touting the democratic party line is not the way to do it.

        And how is indiviual responsibility and hard work not a Christian ethic?

        • Anonymous

          Hard work as stewardship of what God has given us IS a Christian ethic. Individual responsibility is not IF it means I take credit for what I have only accomplished by means of God’s grace and use that to justify not being merciful to others.

          • Gainfully Employed

            Ok, I think I’ve pinpointed where the rub is for me. You just said, “…use that to justify not being merciful to others.” Who’s not being merciful? Herman Cain is a politician who is trying to create an political and economic atmosphere of growth. I’m not trying to campaign for the guy, but based on his policy initiatives and things he has said, I believe that is his goal. How is growth unmerciful? Growth allows for the greatest good for the greatest number of people. To charcterize us as unmerciful to the poor. Or as previous posts say, racists, or bigots, or whatever other labels are deemed politcal viable, is to completely miss the point and further the goal of American liberalism.

            Its an ideological difference we have. I get it. And I get that nothing is going to be resolved from the comment sections of a blog post. I still don’t think its right to characterize business people and fiscal conservatives as somehow totally greedy and unmerciful to the poor. To the left, compassion takes the forms of hand-outs, bail-outs, and entitlement programs. (All of which increases the scope of government intrustion, limits freedom, and increases the left’s stranglehold over humanity) To me, compassion is helping others so that they can help themselves.

            Plus, taking care of the needy is the territory of the Church, not the government.  

          • Anonymous

            I guess you’re not going to accept my self-identification as a conservative because you continue to project ideas onto me from the “left” that have nothing to do with what I’ve written here. I’m not weighing in on whether the government or the church is supposed to help the poor. I happen to think it’s the church’s job. The reason the church isn’t doing it is because it’s filled with people who say “I’m working hard, why should I help other people who are too lazy to take care of themselves?” Compassionate conservativism is
            undermined by the self-justification of people who don’t recognize their dependence on God’s providence but
            instead pretend that their success is their individual
            responsibility as is others’ failure. The whole gospel is about
            learning that we are nothing without God and responding to
            God’s grace with pure gratitude which motivates us to both
            work hard and take care of others and help them come
            to a place where they can serve God with joy as well. Ayr Rand’s poisonous anti-gospel of self-reliance undermines the possibility of compassionate conservativism.

    • http://twitter.com/DocMartinTrench Martin Trench

      Thankfully someone here is talking sense. Thanks!

      • http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/ Morgan Guyton

        What would make more sense to me is if you engaged my actual article rather than superimposing your misgivings with the Wall Street movement which has nothing to do with the way that “individual responsibility” is a secular humanist virtue masquerading as a “Christian” value. I’m surprised that a pastor like you is unable to engage and deal with nuance. What if there are people who want to come to Gateway Church who don’t agree with your politics? Don’t you want to be able to reach them too?

        I actually preached a sermon last Sunday in my very “purple” church about the different way that we are called as Christians to respond to problems in the world. It’s called “Occupy the kingdom.” http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2011/10/16/occupy-the-kingdom/

        It was largely influenced by a conversation I had with one of our most ardently conservative members. I’m sorry that I’m unable to be the one-dimensional straw man that you need me to be.

    • steven rozzi

      Is there much evidence to support the claim that Occupy Wall Street protesters are not poor and live off of government aid? Yes, from what I’ve seen, a good majority of the protests and occupations have been composed of college-aged white people, which means they or their parents could afford college, which clearly puts them in the upper percentiles of American wealth – meaning they are probably not on medicaid plans. Or, this means that they and their parents are in a lot of debt. So, it really depends on how we define “poor” here.

      Also, from what I’ve seen, people at Occupy Wall Street are just as angered by Obama’s handling of the presidency as they are with Republicans (see Cornell West, who attended Occupy Washington, Occupy Los Angeles, and Occupy Wall Street, on his ideas about Obama). I have also seen a similar disdain on this website and in Rediscovering Values by Jim Wallis (a regular contributor to this site).

      Please excuse my tangent on Occupy Wall Street, now onto the discussion of Mr. Cain.

      From my understanding, Guyton is not finding issue with Cain’s hard work or success. The problem is the perceived hypocrisy in a man who says that his success and wealth was given by God while at the same time holding the belief that those without wealth or financial success just need to work harder and those with wealth have no responsibility to help. Guyton sees everything on Earth has belonging to God and us as stewards of the Earth. The problem is when people say they believe this but do not steward the Earth in ways that honor God (see the least of these passage in Matthew 25).

      Here, I do not see any advocation for the government to be a part of wealth redistribution. But, Guyton proposes that any kind of redistribution (whether by individuals or churches or non-profits) will be helpful for the poor. Wealth is a major determinant of life chances and currently, there are huge gaps of wealth between rich and poor and between races (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/07/26/wealth-gaps-rise-to-record-highs-between-whites-blacks-hispanics/) These differences are in part do to the racialized legacy of American history (see How Jews Became White Folks by Karen Brodkin). Redistribution would not decrease the incentive to work since we would be working for those who, because of certain social structures in place (many of which have to do with government policies,) do not have the same advantages as those who have the opportunity to go to college and work hard to get a well-paying job.

      Neither this site nor Occupy Wall Street pledges undying support to Obama or any political party. Guyton and those who support redistribution and generosity to the poor are not lazy.

      Sorry for the long post, but I thought it was needed.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks for sharing Steven.

    • Scrapiron

      You write, ” Please explain to me how giving away your money, either individually, or as the leftists would like, to the government, you can end poverty?”

      First of all, the fact that you think of it as ‘your money’ belies the fact that you were not paying attention to the article.  The entire point was John Wesley’s focus on everything we have being God’s, not ours.

      Secondly, no Red Letter Christian is going to claim that any action is going to end poverty, because Jesus said the poor would always be with us.  So your challenge is irrelevant here.  Giving away what God has blessed us with has no more to do with ending poverty than Mother Theresa’s bathing, feeding and holding a dying leper had to do with ending leprosy.  You do it because of love and because God calls us to.  It boggles my mind that so many evangelicals can read throught the New Testament, (or even much of the Old) and not get that our economic outlook should be mostly about caring for the interests of poor people.

      Third, as to the “leftists” desire to have the government help in the distribution of the wealth (seemingly a necessity, since Christians voluntarily give a fraction of a percent), I would say this.  If I lived in a monarchy or dictatorship, my advocacy for the poor would be restricted only to what I do personally with the income God has blessed me with.  Since I live in a democracy, however, I also have a responsibility to participate in my government, so I am to be an advocate for the poor there, as well. 

    • OldAlchemist

      “Another thing, this site is all about “helping the poor.” Would someone please explain to me how they believe redistributing wealth helps the poor? Please, because I’m at a complete loss here, and history isn’t giving me any examples of success.”
      Christ states that the poor will be with us always, but also states that when we do it for the least we are providing for him.   Over all I think Christian have had limited success or success in fits and spurts, as the faithful have been drawn to repent.  One example God convicting one person to redistribute wealth and who made it his life’s work is George Muller.   

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/6TMWGADCHW3VVQNLI3PRTGFSRY Cynthia

        Have you ever been to countries where the government does not do anything to ameliorate the conditions of the poor? Very religious countries like Honduras and El Salvador have very little in the way of safety nets, and the poor are everywhere. Old people begging on buses, small children begging in the streets. There are plenty of churches there, but they seemed overwhelmed

  • http://twitter.com/DocMartinTrench Martin Trench

    Teach a man to fish – and he will become self-sufficient and have ample left over to help others – but he will also be a wretched Capitalist like Herman Cain.
    take Herman Cain’s fish away from him and give them to someone else – and you have made him a good Socialist and Red Letter Christian.
    That seems to be the moral of this story. 

    “For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: If a man will not work, neither should he eat. We hear that some among you unemployed and disruptive. They are not busy – they are busybodies” (2 Thessalonians 3:10-11)

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry that you’ve decided you’re more interested in listening to yourself talk than seeking the truth together with others. This is not about socialism or wanting the government to do what the church is called to do. This is not about Occupy Wall Street. I was just giving the context for Herman Cain’s quote. It’s about eradicating secular humanist ideologies that have infested the church and keep us from living out our call. I wish you could step back from the two-sided battlefield that you have so firmly engrained into your brain. Of course we’re supposed to work hard and win glory for God’s kingdom but if we really believe that we’re nothing without God’s grace, then we are not individually responsible for what we accomplish. That’s ideological schizophrenia.

      • Prsvy

        Individual responsibility is essential for a theology in which God rewards even Christians saved by grace according to their work.  Grace and providence do not abdicate our individual responsibility to respond faithfully to God’s grace.  If they did, then you could see someone who was poor due to his or her own laziness, and blame God for making that person poor through his divine providence.  Providence without responsibility produces the kind of mystical and shiftless Christianity that Wesley himself rejected.  Wesley was all about individual responsibility.  If you did not live up to the Social Principles of his societies, you were kicked out.  Simple as that.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IC5TX4BMOLKPRLBRKNLPPFTFAE Charles

    God is sovereign …it is He that metes out justice…is that not what the Bible says..
    People that are blessed with good health and wealth are just that blessed. But when your identity is wrapped up in what you own vs. what you truly are .a child of God that is when you need to take a hard look at yourself ..
    Life is hard money cannot insulate yourself from that …God loves 100 percent of us,  

    • Anonymous

      That’s what divine providence sounds like. Even if we work hard to earn money, we should thank God for the work ethic that He gave to us rather than seeing that as something to take glory in which is my problem with the perspective of “individual responsibility.” It doesn’t mean anything to call yourself “blessed” unless your gratitude chastens you from judging those less fortunate and instead prompts you to share your blessing with others out of stewardship.

  • Peter Hitchmough

    I’ve been rich and I’ve been poor. Right now – I’m poorer than I have been in 50 years on this planet. Is it my fault? Some of it. Maybe, but not in the way Herman Cain suggests.

    I am convinced that I and many hard-working followers of Christ are tasting poverty now and God is reminding us personally of the question “Do I serve God or money?” There was a time when I prayed; I supported organised mission, and I gave some of my income away BUT I was never generous in a biblical sense and on a biblical scale.

    Now, I am blown away by the God provides for me day to day.

    From Matthew 19 -“All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

    • Anonymous

      When you’re Biblically generous and trusting of God, it’s a completely different paradigm for viewing the world. I am trying to learn how to be that way. I have never been poor so I don’t understand what that’s like. I can only try to honor the One who has given me everything I have the best I can and not spend His money frivolously and help the people He calls me to help.

  • 5557

    Americans have it good, including most of the unemployed, “poor” ones.  The entire article and topic has no point.  Cain isn’t attributing his fortune to divine providence at all, rather he is reinforcing the very Christian reality of freewill: Americans are free to pursue as much or as little wealth, adventure, education, etc. as they want.  Each person meets God in a unique way, and on God’s terms.  Some might have to live a life of pampered greed, others a life of poverty, before being brought to a state of spiritual poverty in which they are ready to surrender to God.  Either way, the heart is what is at stake.  Cain sees that the protesters are not looking for a restoration of heart.  They have fallen into fear, hatred, and greed (strangely enough)–the weapons our current administration leverages to take and retain power.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/6TMWGADCHW3VVQNLI3PRTGFSRY Cynthia

      “Americans have it good, including most of the unemployed, “poor” ones.” You make “having it good” sound like a disease.

      Americans may have had it good, but that good is going, going, soon to be gone. At least for the majority of us.

      When productivity alone is touted as the highest value, and millions of well-paying jobs are lost to automation or sent abroad, we all lose. Well, almost all of us.

      General Electric paid no income taxes last year, the company earned $14.2 billion in profits, and is shipping its 115-year-old X-ray business from Waukesha, Wisconsin to Beijing, China. Gee, thanks, America! Thanks for the freedom, the democracy, the security, the legal system you provided that made us so successful, but we’re going to transfer our business to a communist dictatorship where people have few rights and religion is tightly controlled. After all, we are being more productive, the Dow Jones average will go up, and our shareholders and executives will benefit mightily. As for those hard-working scientists, engineers, technicians, and secretaries in Waukesha, Wisconsin, who’ve lost their positions? We’ll provide outplacement services for them, and help ease them into service jobs at McDonald’s or Starbucks.

      General Electric Co. spent $21.5 million last year trying to influence the US government.

      In discussing the unemployed, “poor” ones, some may be tempted to quote 2 Thessalonians 3:10-11:
      10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
       11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.
       
      In doing so, they ignore the current economic reality: it’s not that Americans don’t want to work, it’s more that the corporate world prefers to hire people with few rights and little political and economic power.  

  • Pierrekeys

    I love this article and love the theological fabric of the doctrine of grace and doctrine of providence that weaves through the theme of your artcle.

    Sad thing is that it appears that most of the people that are opposing this article seem to be doing some political posturing or simply don’t understand how much individuality as perverted American Christian in recent years. Free will doesn’t trump the fact that whatever we receive (rather small or big) is because of God’s grace. An an attitude of thanksgiving and gratitude should flow from that out pour of His grace. God is concerned how we help the least of these in our society. Call it socialism or not as Christians we are connected through community. Cain’s remarks last night reflected his attitude toward those who are struggling right now. I didn’t see Christ in that remark. People don’t pull themselves by their bootstraps even the works that accompany our faith is because of God’s grac

    • Anonymous

      The point of God’s mercy is to make us merciful. When we find it easy to make pejorative conclusions about people we don’t know, that shows how much God’s mercy has transformed our hearts. The measure of whether we have actually accepted Christ is whether our justification comes from Him alone or from our “rags-to-riches” autobiographies.

  • http://beinghappygirl.blogspot.com happygirl

    This is all fine and good.  If you want to give like Wesley, that would be great.  But how about this, Christians should tithe.  There, I’ve used the “s” word, should.  The Bible tells us to tithe.  If all Christians tithed, the Church would have PLENTY of money in its coffers to do God’s work.  (provided they didn’t spend it all on stained glass and a new sound system.  I saw this link on a minister’s fb page.  I will never forget the sermon he preached on tithing and telling us all he didn’t tithe.  Here he is, preaching to the people who pay his salary and telling us he is stealing from God.  He says he is humbled by this article.  He should be ashamed.  I’m sure he still doesn’t tithe.  Hi Stan.  :)

    • Jennifer Nolan

      Easy for some people to say — but even some evangelicals I’ve read are allergic to imposing the tithing principle, because it imposes financial hardship on struggling parishioners.  The basic priciple that Guyton, Wesley, and all of these commentators are trying so hard to put forth is that from those to whom much is given, much is expected — and those expectations emanate from the Creator.  The wealthy cannot escape their moral obligations by trying to shift them to the poor, especially when the latter are being nickel-and-dimed into centuries-long debt all over the country and the world.   This includes the students in the Occupy camps, no matter how spoiled they look to you or to Gainfully Employed.  By the way, what is “gainful employment” when some of those young people, white as they are, work full time and even more than that, and still can’t afford to leave their parents?  They may be callow, silly, stupid and overprotected, but they still work hard and pay taxes.  They deserve a better answer than  “Just suck it up and put more in the plate.”

      • http://beinghappygirl.blogspot.com happygirl

        Jennifer,

        I think it’s a matter of trusting God and not asking the government or the organized church to bail you out and allow you to shirk your obedience to God. A tithe is a tithe, great or small. And it’s not about the money, Jennifer, it’s about obedience and trusting God. When you have a minister (Hi Stan) preaching from the pulpit and telling his flock he does not tithe, what kind of message does that send? Be obedient to God, Jennifer. Give God his 10%.

        HappyGirl

        • Jennifer Nolan

          “Trust God”?  This is not an answer — not for the nickel-and-dimed workers of America, not for the child laborers of India, China, or Indonesia (who are Islamic and therefore worship our God, for what that’s worth), or for the tens of millions of slaves around the world, or for the survivors of war crimes or earthquakes.  I don’t plan on “giving God His 10%” of my $11.50 an hour, however much you may wish I did, and neither should Wal-Mart cashiers or Immokalee tomato pickers; the eternal Author of our infinite Universe can get along just fine withou our pittances.  The Lord entrusted the duty to social justice to the well-to-do, not the poor; if you ignore that, you are rewriting Scripture.  You are also rewriting it if you insist that the Lord will keep ordinary individuals alive.  He will not; no matter what the Psalmist wrote, even the Virgin Mary only lived for some 70 years.  There is no heavenly rescue from overpopulation, inequality, plutocracy, political oppression, or personal handicaps; the rescue comes from good, God-loving citizens, or it comes from nowhere.  Self-responsibility only extends to the tip of a person’s index finger.  Ignoring the call to charity is sheer sinful disobedience.

          • http://beinghappygirl.blogspot.com happygirl

            http://www.dailybible.com/cev/11/cev1115s.htm
            Jennifer, please look at these verses and see how God wants us to give. Not just the rich, but the poor should give, as well. I hope you find peace. Be obedient to God, he will bless your obedience. HappyGirl

          • JamesWynn

            If you make you $23,000 a year. You are in the top 10% of income earners worldwide. It is self-evident that the Bible is including the top 10% when it refers to the wealthy.

          • JamesWynn

            http://www.globalrichlist.com/

            Try this tool. It’s fun.

  • Complicatedstephen

    I teach at a middle school that is predominantly african american and low income. I am caucasian. I have good relationships with my african american boss, coworkers, and students. I think we should have Herman Cain speak at my school. I have a great day planned for him. 

    Mr.Cain should introduce himself as the special ed kids and other hungry children assemble for their free or reduced breakfast. He can try and shame them for being poor and special ed. He should promise them that the breakfast ends the minute he becomes president. He might suggest they find churches to eat at. He wants the kids to know that their parents are nothing but leeches upon society. He will make sure the kids understand that being a greedy war mongering capitalist is the morally superior, even holy path in life There’s no honor in anything but the dollar. 

    We even have some hispanic children. We especially want him to meet the illegals He can promise them that he will electrocute them, their parents, relatives and friends on his 20 foot fence. 

    I’m sure Mr. Cain has all kinds of off the cuff jewels that he can share with the kids. What a great christian man, a great leader for the young.

    Funny thing is, Mr.Cain’s morals are no better than that of a chest thumping dollar waving womanizing gun toting pimp rap thug. Truth is, I have more respect for them.

  • April Emery

    the link to a letter in this post is especially poignant
    http://aprilemery.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street.html

  • James

    This article is not addressing Cain’s comment in context. The OWS protesters ARE blaming. They are blaming other humans they don’t know for their financial and career situations. Envy over the material weath of others is hardly a fruit of the Spirit.

    “Blame” very much is in the Christian’s vocabulary when talking about their own sin. The purpose of the Law was to increase blame (Romans 5:20). Without blame there can be no repentance. And without repentance, no salvation.”Twas, grace that taught my heart to fear and grace that fear relieved.

    • Koop1975

      I would argue the OWS movement isn’t blaming other humans so much as the system. By system, I don’t mean “capitalism” – I mean corporate oligarchy. I think a lot of liberals and progressives are waking up to the fact that Obama (like Clinton) is every bit as much a corporatist as the leaders of the Republican party. On the other side of that coin, more and more classic conservatives like myself are recognizing that terms like “free market” and “free trade” are loaded terms used to prop up a system that is no longer what it was set out to be – the whole idea of the American Revolution was to “free” individuals from the clutches of an oligarchy, an old-money system set up to protect power and privilege, and to extract labor at little cost.

      As a Christian, I am bound to serve one, and only one master. Any economic theory or discussion that distracts me from that end is the work of the devil.

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