Give up the fight? Yes. Apologize? Perhaps. No use in fighting. Everyone
regardless of gender, sexual identity, beliefs, etc. should always be
welcomed and invited into the church. But, everyone must leave their
life of sin and be held accountable to his/her actions and behavior just
like all of us should. No special provisions. And, there certainly
should be grace involved. Jesus and Paul set forth certain standards of
living for a reason. And, although many of us fall short, doesn’t mean
we give them up altogether.

Some brief responses from a British Christian:

1. The American Christian tendency to “war” is a problem broader than the issue of gay marriage. It is deeply rooted in the nation and its churches’ history and culture.

2. In a democracy, participation in law-making is an activity open to all. It would be surprising, therefore, for those who understand marriage to be, by definition, a heterosexual institution, to not express this view when laws are being framed or amended.

3. Your statement that “God did not instruct the church to force the rest of the world to have the appearance of the church” is a truism. But your analysis of the church’s role as “transforming lives”, while sounding appealing at a pastoral level, is perhaps rather too individualistic to do justice to our role as “salt” in society, nor to the corporate and structual dimensions to sin in the world.

4. Is your approach to enagement with the gay rights agenda applied in the same way to the other issues you refer to as legitimate areas of Christian concern? “Growing income inequality, greed, rampant corruption and an unlawful and unaccountable federal government” will never be effectively challenged by only offering individual pastoral teaching or by being welcoming. In fact, have you never raised a voice or held a picket in protest at any of these issues?

I weep for the people that have been hurt by the church… I pray continually for the Love of Christ to be more important than any moral law the church would like to impose on the greater community. We need to address all sin equally, with the same amount of mercy and grace offered to all.

I am not a global expert, or world religion expert by any means.  But I think it is worthwhile to point out that in the major world religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam, sexual conduct is a big deal.

Religions, including Christianity, have overlapping shadows of similarity, yet with their own uniqueness.

Trust me, I am not saying “all paths lead to heaven”.  I am simply stating there are commonalities.

Chances are the reader of this blog lives in the USA, and has primarily been shaped by Christian thought from the west.

Changing directions just for a moment, for some reason God has called out homosexual behavior as sin.  Just like he has any other aspect of unbelief.

Recently, I was in Kathmandu, and the local paper reported on a story where homosexual activists were seeking equal rights.

Remember, Nepal is a country that is about 92% Hindu and maybe 5% Buddhist.  

I would not be at all surprised that there will continue to be a change on the major religions front in many arenas, including equal rights for sexual orientation.

The point of my note here is that the issue at hand is not unique to Christians or the USA.  The USA might be on the forefront, but other countries will soon be involved in standing up for equal rights for homosexuals, men, women, children, immigrants, etc.

Just a couple of thoughts.

I attended a local UMC – My partner worked weekends, so she didn’t attend with me – I read the banner on the curb “open hearts. open minds. open doors.” and believed it – It should have also read “closed closets” … I became involved – joined a women’s small group book study – made an appointment to meet with the pastor about baptizing our boys – an infant son & an older child whom we had just adopted – the pastor told us that he would not baptize our boys, as we could not adhere to the covenant to raise them in faith, as we were living in sin – the same day, i received a call from the leader of my small group telling me i was not welcome to return, as the fact that i was gay, was making some of the other moms uncomfortable & they were unwilling to have me bringing my sin into their time of fellowship and learning … i can not articulate the depth of the hurt and betrayal …

After reading your well written article the second time I calmed down a bit, but I still believe that you have misrepresented those, thinking and compassionate Christians who  oppose the legalization of gay marriage.  I also thnk that some of your arguements have glaing flaws, but I, at the moment, don’t have time to expand on those logic “mis-fires.”

While there has unfortuately been much wrong done, in the name of Christ, with respect to interacting with, and responding to the needs of, homosexuals, to attempt to deny what God has established as the intended relationship/bond between a man and a woman, one has to strain credulity beyond the breaking point.

ONe must show unrelanting love to all (including homosexuals), but the activity cannot be condoned in any way, including redefining marriage.

Tim

I just cant sit and not post this. If you believe this then you also can come to the conclusion that pedaphiles are just following their hearts and need to be accepted in the church. Maybe we need to apologize to the adults who seduce and rape young children. Am I comparing homosexuality with these people..UMM yes I am as most are homosexuals. Remember that homosexuality was illegal in most states at one time. As we have ‘evolved’ (joke) we are so intellectually advanced that we now accept this behaviour as ‘normal’  If this happened withy homosexuality it can happen with pedaphelia…not a stretch at all, in fact it is a logical progression of what you espouse.
Why dont you want to argue the ‘born’ or ‘choice’ ? I will tell you why, because you know that the Bible specifically addresses this type of deviant behaviour and you know in your heart that God is going to hold you accountable for your misrepresenting his word or his intended message.
No one said that homosexuals couldnt attend church and be treated with dignity as I know some who attend and are treated well. What the problem seems to be, even with you which is a disgrace, is that they want the church to affirm their behaviour and be able to hold positions in the church without any scrutiny. NEWSFLASH…..All church leaders, teachers, song leaders etc…should be held accountable. I mean I really dont want my preacher standing in the pulpit  after a binge of jack and coke. If you are a homosexual and want to attend church please feel free to do so but just as you would be rebuked for drinking, cursing, smoking, stealing, etc in church you cant expect a congregation of believers in Gods word to put aside the Bible and say “Oh we are so sorry that you feel rejected….its ok…what can we do to help you sin??”
Apologize….You bet your sweet bippy YOU NEED TO APOLOGIZE  FOR WRITING SUCH BLASPHEMY. I believe that teachers, preachers, or anyone in religious authority will be held to a higher standard as they are trusted to lead the flock in the correct direction according to Gods word. You my friend are in a very bad place and I would really hate to be in your shoes. I wouldnt want to be the leader of the erosion of Gods word in the U.S.but obviously you dont fear a God who specifically gave you the answer to your dilema.

The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue
entitled, “Male Intergenerational Intimacy,” containing many articles portraying
sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents
should look upon the pedophile who loves their son “not as a rival or
competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy’s
upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home.”

In 1995 the homosexual magazine “Guide” said, “We can be proud that the gay
movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out
loud that children are naturally sexual” and “deserve the right to sexual
expression with whoever they choose. …” The article went on to say: “Instead of
fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good,
including children’s sexuality … we must do it for the children’s sake.”

Larry Kramer, the founder of ACT-UP, a noted homosexual activist group,
wrote in his book, “Report from the Holocaust: The Making of an AIDS Activist”:
“In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be
they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires
the activity, and perhaps even solicits itRead more: Report: Pedophilia more
common among ‘gays’ http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=13722#ixzz1dpiySI9S

I hear the cry for acceptance from people struggling with same attraction, but what makes you different from other Christians who have other thorns in the flesh, wha yo should get special treatment above and beyond others with there struggles….
Let me tell you this God has not changed, he ates sin, homosexuality is sinful, Romans clearly identifies this, let alone the old testament.

But of blatant willful disobedience in the world,God is allowing Islam to be raised up, it will be one of the main instruments of his judgment.

It is the anti Christ government, demonic its practices, and wicked. God calls to repentance, and to abstain from sexual perversion, this life is purel probationary in it’s intirety, another words it’s not going to be joy and gladness every day, but at times severe trial.
GOD is more interested in your character than your comfort level, wake up.

What about the reverse of this statement, “What would it mean to the GLBT community to hear from the church in unison “we were wrong to wage this war against you, and we are sorry for it and for all of the ways that we’ve hurt you.””?  Would not it be nice to see the GLBT community respond likewise towards the Christian community?

Christ designed marriage from the very beginning with Eve and Adam and right until the very end of which we His Beautiful Bride The Church are completed with Our Lord Christ Jesus at the marriage of The Lamb. You are sadly exceedingly mistaken if you cannot see the pedophiles riding on the coat tails of the homosexists{i.e; NAMBLA=North-American-Man-Boy-Love-Association}. That’s right I’m calling it like it is:Another form of Sexism. We laughed at male sexism in the 1950′s followed by female sexism in the 1970′s then homosexism in the 80′s and so on and you guessed it followed by pedophilia, bestiality and even necrophilia. Need clarification? 1-Saturday Night Live,2- the movie: Kiss. I am sure you could find DOZENS UPON DOZENS MORE if you put your nose to the grind stone for a very short duration. I was faced with the choice of becoming a homosexist and I turned away at a very young age. I do NOT condemn homosexuals but I tell very clearly out of nothing but the compassion of Christ in me for them that there is help available. Intelligent considerate civilizations are not entertained by harming and degrading their members. Antonio L.J. du Rocher

I first fell in infatuation with a woman in my pre-teens. I didn’t really consider myself as gay so I didn’t judge myself as bad I just knew that I adored this older woman. I wasn’t feeling anything sexual particularly, I was only about 12. To start with she was flattered that I always wanted to be with her. My dad was quite a well known evangelical leader in our area so she was pleased that I asked her to visit. My mistake was in not hiding my feelings I guess. I sent her a letter with some song lyrics ( ‘Only you’ if anyone’s interested) with all the ‘I love you’ parts underlined. She freaked out and called a meeting with my dad. I remember being sat on the floor staring at the carpet while she told my dad the awful thing I’d done. My dad’s reply to her has stayed with me and sustained me through many difficult times since. He said ‘Are you telling me my daughter is a lesbian?’ and when she nodded he said ‘Well what’s it to you?’ and asked her to leave.
I continued through life fancying both men and women, though women far more. I was a ‘good’ Christian girl and was a virgin when I married. All my female friends chatted about how difficult it was to remain a virgin when you the urges to be with your boyfriend are so strong. I thought I was so spiritual, not feeling at all tempted! We had compulsory pre-marital counselling as our housegroup leader insisted upon it. He and his wife asked us if we had any level of sexual experience and we were shocked. Weren’t we supposed to stay pure? They suggested we kiss more. The whole thing was embarassing but I guess they had a better handle on who I was than I did. I somehow thought it would all happen on the honeymoon and was bitterly diappointed when it didn’t. It wasn’t anything I could tell anyone about. We were married after all and divorce was not an option. I felt most sorry for my groom as he had no idea what he was letting himself in for. I still didn’t recognize myself as anything but straight. He was an attentive lover, a handsome man but sleeping with him gave me a strong repulsion. We remained married for 10 years, having sex every few months if I could bear it until I got to the point of nausea. It was akin to the repulsion of sleeping with a brother. After 10 years I said I loved him but I couldn’t sleep with him again and he, understandably, left me. We did try Christian counselling. Of course, I didn’t mention the fancying women thing as I hadn’t really acknowledged it to myself. They listened to us pour our hearts out and then said we should read the Bible more and everything would be ok.
During our marriage we had moved to a town smaller than but not unlike San Francisco in it’s open culture and acceptance of people. It doesn’t just embrace gays it embraces the idea of difference. Foreign workers and racial minorities have told me they almost never come across racism, and fashions are noticeably diverse. The large evangelical church we joined reacted as though they were living in a war zone with weekly preaches about the evils of homosexuality, divorce, nightclubs and liberal thinking.
A week after my marriage broke up a close male friend visited me with a letter he had written. It was going to be a suicide note but my ‘fall from grace’ had been a small ray of hope for him that I might not be able to judge him from my own lowly position. The letter outlined his struggles with knowing he was gay (he was 28) but feeling that he could never tell his parents, sisters and the church. He had come to the conclusion that it would be better for everyone if he died. He figured if he made it look like an accident he wouldn’t shame his parents. He loved them so much. I prayed for wisdom and the answer came instantly. I told him I would stand with him, tell his family with him, see him through it all. He sobbed with relief.
Another week later I received a phone call from the lead elder of the church saying he had heard some interesting things had happened in my household and I wasn’t welcome to attend any more. I had grown up in that group of churches. I had no friends outside of it. When my parents heard about my causing my divorce they broke contact with me. My only contact with my previous life was my sister who has special needs and couldn’t understand why I was being ostracised. I had two young sons and when we bumped into old babysitters in the street they blanked me AND my boys. I just pretended it must have just been someone who looked similar. They were the most desolate six months of my life
Through it all, every twist and turn, every day, every moment, I knew God to be so close to me. Somehow in that prison of isolation His love became the strongest I have ever felt it.
All this was 10 years ago and I realise I have typed way too much so please accept my apologies. So- where am I now?
I am acutely aware that I am bi-sexual, possibly gay. I still have the struggle between wanting to be pure and not wanting to be alone. I have still not come out to my parents even though they are now mortified at how they reacted when I got divorced. I believe my dad knows. I once told him how important it has been to me that he responded all those years ago by defending me. He just nodded and said ‘it was none of her business’. I tried to keep things hidden from my sons. I didn’t want to weird them out I guess but they have grown up in this town and just don’t see it as an issue. I didn’t actually come out to them. A local university professor came to visit and they noted me reacting to her like a high school kid! My 17 year old took me aside and said, ‘Mum, if you’re bi I’d like to think you could tell me.’ Bless him. Thank god for him and for every accepting human being I’ve met.
Now, I know many of you will want to pick my story to pieces but you can’t say any worse than I’ve already heard. I’ve just written it in the hope that one more person might turn to their kid and say they accept them no matter what or might look at folk in their church and understand that often ‘struggle’ is a more appropriate term than ‘sin’.
I was on a sixth grade school trip to the original Pilgrim Hall in Penn, England and was outraged by a photo of two men holding mans. I asked the tour guide why they allowed that to be on their ‘community news’ board. He said perhaps their job was to introduce people to God and perhaps it was God’s job to judge them.

I understand that we can’t hold the world to a Christian standard; however, as a society we do have to decide what is healthy for us as a whole and what is not. If I believe the bible teaches homosexuality is sin, then it follows that endorsing homosexual marriage is not good for our society. In California, from kindergarten to 12 grade, public schools can now teach our children @ bisexuality and homosexuality, transgenderism, etc. – not just in an informational way, but in the context that they are good valid life choices and must not be disagreed with. This is the problem with same sex marriage. There’s an agenda behind it.

I have been a high school teacher for over 30 years. When a student walks into my classroom, that individual is my student and my calling is to be the teacher for that person, no matter what his/her background, religious (or not) belief, race, or economic situation. I hope that I am known as person of charity and goodness as I try to reflect the Savior. I also am a ladies’ leader in a conservative and caring Christian community of faith; I take very seriously Jesus’ call to righteousness and do not feel that I can mold the scriptures to me; I must mold myself to the scripture. SOOOOO, where am I going with this?

For the last five years, the GLBT group in my school has singled me out for special attention.  This was unsought for and is unfair. Rumors have been spread about me among the student body and faculty. When I track down the sources, I get replies such as…We thought you were like… because you are a Christian. I have been called names in classrooms and on line:  bigoted homophobe, racial homophobe, and those are the ones decent enough to print.  When I came up for a promotion, “someone” went to the administration and said that I wasn’t able to treat all students fairly. I have been insulted in public about my faith by this group and their followers.

Finally, a group of students came to my literal and figurative rescue by confronting the most egregious offenders.  Still, my professional life is damaged; a promotion is NOT going to be in my future.  But I pray every day that I may shine the light of love and the truth in whatever situation I find myself.

This led me to  search the scriptures again.
Is God concerned with the moral and ethical behavior of a nation?  The Old and New Testament confirm that He is. Jehovah wants His children to be aware of and actively promote justice for the poor and abused. Was he concerned about Hitler in Germany?  Andrew Jackson in the United States?  Kony in Africa? Mao in China?

He also expects His children to  seek after righteousness.

What BEHAVIOR is not acceptable? Jesus and Paul are very explicit concerning the path to salvation.  We are called to holiness which is a result of accepting the gift of salvation.  (established in Leviticus and reaffirmed in I Corinthians)  Jesus did not address homosexual behavior, but did He need to?  He upheld the teachings in the law. He explained the true heart of the law as the heart of God. We cannot put a stamp of approval on a behavior that God, IN SCRIPTURE, has not done so.  If it were OK, would not Jehovah have been very explicit in letting His children know?

In my faith community, we believe that ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. People seeking the Creator are welcome, and we teach the full counsel of God.  All of us have sin and behaviors that are not pleasing to the God of heaven.  The gospel is about change:  darkness to light.  The thief is to steal no longer.  The murderer is to kill no more. The liar is to tell the truth. The wayward father is to take care of his family.  And in the same vein, the homosexual/lesbian sexual practice is to stop.  Gays are welcome to work and worship with us as long as a person is seeking a path to redemption, and for each person the pace is different.

There is a song that I caught a few lines from:  “If I have to change to get into heaven, I don’t want to go in.”  What a tragic and self-centered philosophy. Countless numbers  of people have given their bodies and lives as living sacrifices to serve God.  Salvation is about what God wants, not my wants or any other human’s. God and the kingdom come first, not my sex life. If my husband dies, I will lead a celibate life, which Paul said is a worthy life. He Created us beings of light, not animals unable to control our sexual nature.

This is long; I have never put in print what has happened to me, but after reading many of these posts, I felt that there are some who need to hear the other side of the story.  There is no need to respond and try to “straighten me out.”  I will not be checking to see if anyone agrees or disagrees.

Let all of us DEVOTE ourselves to fasting and prayer to determine the perfect and pleasing will of God.  Romans 12.

Grace and peace.

Marriage is for Man and Woman created by God.  If ‘Man’ wants to marry ‘Man’ then ’Man’ should create another name for that union.  I will never say that’s wrong for anyone to love another person whether it be the same sex or not but don’t change the fabric of our lives and what our Marriages stand for.  I am blessed beyond measure what God has done in my marriage with my Husband and it’s like a glue that he has created and he has bonded us together to fight Satan every day and fight the battle of daily life together as Man and Wife.  We all need to fight Satan but don’t change what I fight for everyday and that’s my marriage because Satan knows that if my Marriage fails everything else in my life fails – he know’s it and tries to break it down at every waking moment! It’s a constant battle.

i can believe that two people of the same sex could love one another in various ways, even to the agape. the only thing that im puzzled about is eros in that kind of a relationship. as a christian thats really where my only source of tension lies with that. i dont think that people, those of the gblt included should be subject to the bible being used as a type of club to beat them with. i guess that lifestyle is something i dont understand and probably cannot because i cant relate.many christians do not mean to be hurtful, we are going on the teachings whether right or wrong that have been passed on to us through the generations. and many of us do not know how to be accepting or empathetic of it because there was no such thing. im not a turn or burn sign holder, because its not my place to judge. all i can say is hopefully we learn from our ways and be more loving, forgiving, and accepting eventhough we may not understand the lifestyle and let the Love of God flow. and deal with things that are more important to the justice of God like ending sex slavery, violence, and inequality. i apologize to the gblt community for the christians not being more accepting, hopefully we one day we can overcome the errors of ways, th church is flawed because people are flawed, we are finite and imperfect people trying to serve an infinite and perfect God.

I am not a Christian but here goes. As a gay man, I felt there was no place for me in religious life, and I decided religion was nothing more than superstition in a gilded leather binding. However, through the years I continued to observe Passover. A few years back, during First Night Seder, I had a bit of an epiphany – I realized that faith = freedom – “Let My people go that they may worship Me!” The slave who believes G-d’s promise is already free, and in one way or another, we all live in some sort of bondage, we all have our Mitzrayim – the Hebrew name for Egypt that literally means ‘tight places,’ we all crave freedom, and we all need redemption. Long story short, I joined an LGBT synagogue in New York City. My synagogue often uses a quote, Psalm 118:22 – “Even ma’asu habonim hay’tah l’rosh pinah” – “The stone that the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone” – to reflect the special role that all marginalized people play in G-d’s scheme. We are here to teach love to a world sorely in need of healing. Being gay is a gift.

At our places of work schools places of serving places of gentle words or places of scolding Jesus says come drink from the living water and go and sin no more. Scripture will reveal to us what that water is and what our sins are.

Since when does Christ’s Church — NOT AMERICA’s — ever SURRENDER to SIN?

Black Bishop Encourages Christians to Leave Democratic Party

A black Virginia bishop is calling for Christians to leave the Democratic Party over what he describes as a “cult-like devotion” to abortion and what he terms as a “rejection” of the traditional family.
Bishop E.W. Jackson, a veteran of the Marine Corps and Harvard Law graduate, says the Democrats’ enslavement of some Americans, most notably black Americans, is the modern day equivalent of slavery and his focus is to lead an exodus, similar to what Moses did in the Old Testament.

“Let God’s people go,” Jackson told The Christian Post in a telephone interview.

“Clearly, the Democratic Party is the anti-Christian Party in this nation. They reject the Bible, what Bible-believing Christians embrace and they encourage the growth of what we can a ‘non-traditional’ family. That is morally wrong and a disgrace to our nation and our Lord,” said Jackson.

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/black-bishop-encourages-christians-to-leave-democratic-party-79691/#ieXiHOMqOltfckdS.99

One of the truly consternation producing curios I find within the predominantly left-leaning, Democratic party wing of the Church is the frequent reference to Jesus’ teaching on planks and specks in our eyes.

Upon close examination I am amazed that it is virtually ONLY used in the context of Christian to non-Christian, but rarely in the context of Christian to Christian.

Stated another way the implication is that Christians talking to non-Christians have a much bigger beam in their eye that should be removed than the non-Christian who has a mere speck. And by further implication Christians shouldn’t reach for that “speck” in the non-Christian’s eye because they have NOT removed the beam in their own.

If Christians have already had a full bath and are cleansed in the blood of Christ and therefore only need an occasional foot-washing, which is NOT true for those outside the household of faith, why all the umbrage over Christians calling non-Christians to remove the beams in their eyes?

And among the household of faith is there any reason to suppose that Christians should NOT be reaching for the remaining specks in our brothers/sisters eyes?

I believe not.

WE must make an effort to evolve as a society/species. While technologically we have spurned the most highly complex of challenges, some how we are still confounded by the fundimental process of intercommunications. Instead of trying to understand the other’s point of view, forget about respecting it, we oppose it with a seething viciousness. In this regard, we have not evolved beyond the Dark Ages in the timeline of mankind. But we have turned our controversy into a sporting event for which there is no beginning or end. It perpetuates by our lust for our own egotistical regard, shaped by those who agree and amplified by those who do not.

To evolve we must make a conscious effort to first understand the other’s position before we speak. We must understand them fully and without prejudice if ever hoped our opinion is to be heard by them. Otherwise, they will not consider our words, but instead they will reject what we have to say without hearing a single word. To evolve as a species should be at the top of our list of things to do.

I was a Christian at one point. I have known I was transgender from my first memories and went all through school pretending I was just a kid who didn’t want to fit into gender roles. I was a leader at my Christian high school, I was a worship leader at my church, I mentored people and helped them become closer to God. Then there came a day where I just couldn’t do it anymore, I couldn’t hide. After years of counseling, praying to be made normal and even trying healing and deliverance ministries, I came to the conclusion that there had to be a reason that God wouldn’t heal me. But the way I am treated by “Christians” was enough to drive me away from God and the church entirely. You can “hate the sin but not the sinner” all you want, but it only makes us feel like shit. I chose to be transgender as much as someone chooses to be cisgender and that is something that you christians will NEVER understand. This wasn’t a choice. Given a choice I would just be normal, but I can’t. Living a lie is enough to drive me to suicide. You christians don’t understand persecution until you’ve been in our shoes.

To all the people saying that they’re morally opposed to homosexual acts and/or gay marriage: you hate gay people. As a closeted homo myself, you’re not fooling us at all; we can see right through your twisted brand of “love”. As Hemant Mehta so eloquently put it (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/02/if-you-oppose-marriage-equality-what-else-am-i-supposed-to-call-you/), “You can’t say I love my black friends, but I don’t think they should be
allowed to marry white people… without simultaneously being a racist.”

You are bigoted, hateful people. No matter, though, because you’re dying out. We have the young people on our side more and more everyday, while your insane hatred and hypocrisy are sending them fleeing from your churches in droves.

In 10 years when your looked at with disgust for ever holding such vile beliefs about gay people, there’s only one question you need to ask yourselves: was it worth so many dead and hurting kids to try to fight the tide of civil rights? I really hope it was.

I tried to be a good Christian but I am gay and have always felt that I could never be accepted for me, so I no longer attend church. It seems to me that Christians in general say that they love everyone but if and you can fill in the blank. I wonder if I will ever find a love for Christ. I just do not know any more what to believe is true and are there Christians who really accept the LGBT community, and if so, where?

Thank you for letting me share my feelings.

I am borrowing your photograph for a couple of days for my facebook page. Do you know who the photographer is, so I can give them credit? I hate stealing work.

honestly I am appalled at this attempt to distort God’s Word and His intention for His children and then use it as a sword for the battle for homosexuality. While yes Christians are told not to judge, we are also told to not be accepting of things God himself (and not us) find an abomination against Him. I am really not trying to be ugly when I say this but that is exactly what this article is. I couldn’t be more offended by this call to Christians to stand up for what is right when God tells us what is right. Clearly the author doesn’t have a clue what God says…

its the SOUL we contend for..why have we all narrowed our focus to this marriage debate? Jesus is on His throne. we fight for every SOUL!!!! do not be tricked, deceived or distracted..it the SOUL! we long to bring to Him. we prepare for a SINGLE day in History..ONE single day.Rev 21:4′He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

I couldn’t disagree more with this article. If you know it is wrong and sinful, would you let people go through with it without a warning? Same goes with aborting babies. Should we not try to fight for the “equality” of babies and all the government’s rulings with abortions, when we know it is murder? As Christians, we are to be yes, humble and not judgmental, but we should also not sit back and let our brother continue on sinning. Divorce is a sin. Adultery is a sin. All sin keeps us from God. The only thing saving us is Jesus. In order to be in community with Jesus, we need to run from sin, and help others do the same. We should be speaking out against sin as much as we can. Christians are not immune from sinning. All the more to SPEAK OUT and try to save the consequences of those sins. You are so right when saying pull the log out of your own eye. Sin is sin. No one is better or above that. The Word of God is what we should live by. It is unchangeable and to be held with the utmost reverence. To not speak out against something the Bible says is a sin, is not speaking up for the Word that God gave us to live by.

I left the church after several years of struggling with my realization that I had same-sex attractions and had seen a couple of different counselors. I remained celibate during this time and even tried heterosexual dating. . . In the end, nothing changed. I left the church frustrated and discouraged. After living in the gay community for 10 yrs, I tried to reconcile with the church and once again tried counseling and support groups. I was very open with my church leadership and for a time thought that this time would be different. That I would find the continued support and community that had not been there previously. I am sad to say that my attempt to connect with the Christian church has once again been met with disappointment and discouragement. The only people who have been a consistent source of support and pursued relationship with me were from the gay community. I have not been to church in over a year and that saddens me. I have not lost my faith in God or the person of Christ, but I have lost my faith in the Christian community.

Great points made and I agree with most of them. I’ll go a step further in saying that Christians are mistaken in even believing that civil marriage IS what makes a marriage. According to the bible, civil marriage is almost the exact opposite of how it is depicted in the Book. For example, Christ condemns divorce and said that Moses had it all wrong when he allowed it, but with civil marriage one can legally marry and divorce as often as he or she likes. Christ called divorce and remarriage adultery, but civil marriage calls it legal and upstanding. There’s a lot more that separates marriage as defined in the bible from civil marriage, which is why I don’t believe that Christians should continue to try to withhold or judge civil marriage by what is presented in the bible. There is a small ebook on Amazon called Marriage Without a License, which explains this in greater detail. It doesn’t so much explain it in terms of the gay marriage debate, but shows how civil marriage and marriage in the bible are contradictory to one another and definitely not the same thing. The church really shouldn’t even be involved with civil marriage since they are in stark disagreement with one another. You know, two shouldn’t walk together unless they agree.

If you say, “Since the church has failed in the area of divorce, and the church is now a hypocrite, therefore you should encourage other sin, even in a civic capacity,” that is a seriously backwards statement. This is how I read part of this article. If we believe in the dignity of man, created by a loving God, we should be representing that by standing, with grace and truth, for all good and against all wrong be it sex trafficking, fatherless, poverty, or sexual perversion. And no one can honestly tell me that sticking a male part is not designed for a female part. We need to bring our definition of good from what is true. If that is from the God we serve, which is found in the Bible, then we need to stand for that same goodness.

The answer to just give up on standing for good is a lame and failed attempt at grace. Would you apply this same logic to pornography in schools? Kids have rights to explore there sexuality, don’t they, so they should be allowed their freedom. In the vein of this article’s logic, their actions don’t impact other people, right? So it should be ok for them to see pornography, or rather encouraged and sanctioned. Or if two siblings want to get married, what’s wrong with that? There are civic consequences to our moral laws. Our civic laws play out our morality. To say we should protect something because people do it, that’s just silly. Of course our actions affect others around us. We discriminate against all sort of sexual behavior because it’s not helpful to society.

Yes we need to love, in word and in deed. We need to invite people into our lives who believe different and live in the truth and grace Jesus shows us. Let’s not forget the truth when we have the grace.

And if people disagree with us, slamming them with our laws will hurt. And the same is happens to me when I am forced to protect something I don’t agree with. That is a consequence of living together. So we are at an impasse We must evaluate what is best for our society. When we open the doors to redefine marriage, we end up with countless possibilities. This is a serious problem. Will we protect 2 men and 2 women getting married? We might have to if we follow the logic of this paper.

When I was around 13, I started experimenting with cross-dressing. In some twisted way, I thought that if I became a hermaphrodite, lusting after myself, I wouldn’t have to deal with the desire I felt toward girls. Since that time, I have struggled with transsexual thoughts from time to time, as well as with fetishes related to this. I stumbled onto erotic literature online. It became a dangerous, exhilarating, guilt-inducing addiction. I confessed at various times to my parents; they were bewildered and concerned, but they affirmed me as their son, praying for me and doing what they could in the way of counsel, accountability, sympathy, and a listening ear.

During this time, I memorized Romans 6-8, with the idea that my mind was a muscle. When I tried to shut my eyes to block out the images or twitch to distract myself from the feelings, it was like a welding arc: snap, snap, flash, then blackness and I couldn’t concentrate on anything else. Then, as instead of blocking things out, I memorized scriptures and constantly wrestled with tears as they related to my situation, I saw little changes. Burdened with temptation, guilt and depression, I would sit in the truck on a hot day reading the psalms: “rescue me from evil men…” pleading with God because the evil man I most needed rescuing from was inside of me.

Another source of pain at this time (age 16 or 17) was online forums. I would get on threads debating the existence of God, and though I was arguing that God exists, the mindset of the doubters actually got through to me. I argued with Calvinists that a true Christian could fall away if he really wanted to. Daringly, I thought that I could win the argument by being a true Christian who fell away and killed himself. Then I would know who was right. Or if God wasn’t really there, then I could go on and be a transsexual, and none of it would even matter (except what my family would think). But if I was wrong… and God was there… I didn’t want to think about hell.

Around this time, I read Romans 7, where Paul said “what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do…” Bishop Spong thinks Paul wrote this because he was secretly gay. I think Paul simply speaks the truth of the whole human condition, gays included. This sparked something in my mind: if the Bible has in there exactly what I’m feeling as I’m struggling with sin and doubting God, then I haven’t subsumed it with my doubting. It has actually subsumed me, and the whole thing is true after all… such that it fully describes my problem, and after that describes the solution, namely Jesus, who can deliver me from to body of sin and death and bring me to a place where there is no condemnation.

After this, feeling some relief but still a bit heavy, I boarded a plane for a summer mission trip in China. While I was there, I stayed in a fourth-floor dormitory. One day, my old doubts came back… how do I know that God is really in control of my decisions? Who’s to say that he’s sovereign? If I threw myself over the railing right now and died (suicide being in my mind an unpardonable sin), wouldn’t that prove that I could make my own choices? And wouldn’t that also put an end to all these mental struggles about sexuality? So I leaned over the rail, and looked down. Then I backed away and told myself that there was no way I was jumping because I want to live. I realized then that God was the one giving me the desire to live, as a means of preserving his child. Then I gave up and let him win.

The following year, I faced another troubling experience. When I was taking a class on family law and studying the legal arguments for and against gay marriage, I found myself coming around sympathetically to the pro-gay point of view… I even feared as I began reading the cases more eagerly that I was starting to feel solidarity with a gay identity or even to feel homosexual desires. I again confessed to my parents, and they prayed for me again.

Since that crisis in China, though, I’ve been committed to living and to being a Christian. I have still had times of backsliding, mostly related to internet addiction, but also self-harm, fantasies and depression, all pointing back to transsexual desire as a refuge. I’ve also struggled with strong feelings for guys that I cared about, which I interpreted as homosexual thoughts. I look at this homosexual interpretation as a category confusion, where the thing that could be homosexual is actually a desire for strong, intimate friendship rather than the other thing.

Right now I have an accountability relationship with my dad and also an old friend, where we encourage each other spiritually and hold each other’s feet to the fire if either of us starts viewing pornography or other things that provide avenues for sinful lust. I need that.

As time goes on, I’m able to see with wider eyes. To look past the chemical responses of my brain. To know when I need help. To know that this too will pass. To know where a cycle will lead me if I choose to step into it again. To know that everyone feels vulnerable sometimes, and that’s ok. I know who I am.

I look at gender confusion and homosexual lust and practice as impermissible on moral grounds, and if I were able to make the laws, I would not define marriage to include same-sex relationships. But I still identify with GLBTs as people and as people with wounds and sins that I share. That’s why I wince every time someone says “let’s give up the fight against gay marriage” and wince even more when they say “God hates fags”.

The sin of Sodom, according to Ezekiel, includes the following two tragedies: “they put on airs and lived obscene lives.” I don’t want to be proud of my sin. And I don’t want to be proud of my “righteousness”. I only want to point others to Jesus, who is the source of love and righteousness for everyone: gays, transsexuals, and church-goers included.

I don’t look at trans-, homo-, bi-, or pan-sexuality as my identity. I hope to marry a girl someday, but my identity isn’t there either. My identity is safe with Christ, and I’ll follow where he takes me, but it’s not going to be returning to the fever of sexual confusion.

All the clergy members that I have come out to have been sympathetic and supportive. One, a youth pastor, asked to listen to my story and became a dear friend and was my accountability partner for a year. Another, the wife of a pastor in Taiwan, said “we think the Christian life is easy, but it’s not.” She and her husband both spurred me on in my goal to enter Christian ministry, without shaming me at all. And my own grandfather, a pastor and counselor for over fifty years, I finally trusted to tell my story a year before he died. I was afraid of what his reaction would be, but he said it was only one of love and concern, and he prayed for me and supported me on my journey.

I came out to a non-Christian friend in Taiwan, one whom I hoped I could “witness to”, but who instead wanted to help me and hear me out because I seemed so burdened and depressed (this was during a backsliding time). It was so painful, because he was so nice to listen and pry my guilt and worries out into the open, but he wanted me to accept myself as gay. I couldn’t do that, and I told him why; it was awkward, but he accepted my reasons, and we remained close friends.

Now I’m living in Thailand, where there are all kinds of young ladyboys. It was the scene of my biggest fears, but although they make me uncomfortable, I still have empathy with them. I want to give these guys acceptance and friendship, and still lead them to the God who has a place for them in his plan, which includes the gender he sovereignly gave them. Such a place of tension. But I hope that as I learn to follow Jesus closer, that maybe the pain in my life can help someone else.

So called same sex marriage has nothing to do with equal rights as often proclaimed. It is about special rights. I cannot marry another man (in most states) neither can a self identified homosexual. We are both treated equally under the law. Therefore no discrimination.

This is really less a “christian” issue and more of a issue of why marriage exists and the interest of the state in providing regulation. People of all faiths and no faith marry. The recognition and legal responsibility of those entering marriage is of great interest to the state. A society is founded on and prospers on successful intact marriages.

The regulation and “definition” of marriage is not some arbitrary esoteric idea. Societies around the world and through time have limited marriage in many ways. They limit marriage based on age, blood relationship, the number of spouses, even the social and religious standing of the individuals. The impact of these ‘limits” on marriage has been the study of social scientists for years.

Further, most of the benefits of marriage can be conferred upon any couple that chooses to do so. A few simple signed legal documents. Again no discrimination.

The debate of course is about society acknowledging the legitimacy of homosexual behavior, to encourage individuals to, at the least, experiment with sexual deviancy, if not embrace it.

Part of this acceptance is an acknowledgement that the individual that engages in sexual activity with members of the same sex is in some way not a heterosexual creature. We are not defined by our impulses and desires. An individual that has no sexual desire or behavior is not somehow something other than a heterosexual creature. I am not addressing the issue of where these desires come from, or the legitimacy of those desires. A man may have a desire to have sexual relations with many women, children, animals, men. The fact that those desires exist from whatever cause is no reason to change the definition of marriage.

The reasons to keep the definition to one man and one women, not of close relation, of a certain age has proven to be beneficial to society,individuals and marriage itself.