It’s Tebow Time!

Posted Jan 9 2012 by Joe Perdue with 132 Comments

    First, let me say that I am a Tim Tebow fan. If you had asked me what time it was on any given Saturday between 2006 and 2010 I would have told you it was Tebow time, because it almost always was. But I’m not a fan for the reason many Christians are. It’s not because he was home schooled (I’m not a fan of that). Nor is it because he is a Christian. I’m friends with a lot of Christians and I don’t have much interest in how far any of them can throw a football. I am a Tebow fan because I’m a Gator fan. I grew up less than an hour from the Swamp and have followed Florida football my whole life. I follow his career as a former Gator, and because he is one of the best players in the NFL.

    With that said, I find Tebow mania among Christians profoundly annoying. Many Evangelical sports fans seem to care more about having a faith that is in everyone’s face than living a life that is consistent with Jesus’ teachings. I won’t go so far as calling his public prayer hypocritical, but for several years now I have wished that one day Tim would run out on the field with Matthew 6:5-6 written on his face. One would think that what Jesus has to say about prayer would mean more to a conservative fan base. I don’t want to be critical, and I won’t ever question Tebow’s Character, because by all accounts his private life is consistent with the way he behaves in public. He is a much better role model for children and teenagers than the average celebrity. With that said, I think his humility and Christ-like attitude off the field as well as the respectful manner in which he is interviewed does more to represent Christianity and the Kingdom of God than any face paint.

    Tebow mania also touches upon a larger problem among conservative Evangelicals: A persecution complex. It seems like every time certain Christians don’t get their way they accuse people of oppressing them. This can range from not being allowed to teach pseudo-scientific theories of human origins in public schools, to laws being passed to prevent people from praying in schools. In this case Christians believe they are being persecuted when they get in trouble for “Tebowing” or getting on their knees in a public place (such as a crowded school hallway) and praying. Matthew 6 implications aside, the author of 1 Peter lays out a principle in chapter two verse twenty that says there is no credit for being punished for doing something wrong. Kids who block halls and endanger others are not being persecuted when they get suspended, no matter what they say they were doing. I think Christians who are being beaten and killed for their faith would agree.

    I have often promised myself that I was not going to write about this. I hate joining internet bandwagons, especially this late in the game. However after Denver defeated Pittsburgh last night things got a little too silly for me to remain silent. Many people have interpreted Tebow’s 316 passing yards as some sort of portent, a sign that God has blessed the Broncos and ordained their victory. The idea that God is actively involved with the outcome of a football game while millions of people around the world starve is offensive. This not only gives people who are not Christians the wrong impressions about God’s priorities, it betrays a fundamentally flawed theology that equates blessing with faithfulness.

    I hope Denver wins the Super Bowl this year. Being a Tampa Bay fan has been more depressing than usual this season and it would be nice to see Tebow win another championship. I hope, that when the season is over and people have moved on to other things, we will all be able to find a better way to honor God than to watch football just because we think God is a fan of a particular quarterback.

    —-
    Joe Perdue is a Master of Divinity student at Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond. He blogs regularly at The Mainline Evangelical.

    Sponsor a Child in Jesus Name with Compassion

    Print Friendly

      Popular Posts

      Related Posts

      • benmanben

        Well, I think God CAN affect everything, so I’m not sure what you are getting at there, but that is more of a deep theological question that I won’t get in to.

        As to the calling “persecution”, as a more conservative Christian, I understand that sometimes conservative Christians can start yelling persecution the moment someone disagrees with them. This can be rather odd. Perhaps some people grow up in a like-minded environment and are a bit shocked to find out that not everyone agrees with them on every issue. I think we can disagree on many beliefs and issues without having to throw a fit every time the other side says that they don’t agree or feel a different way.

      • benmanben

        Well, I think God CAN affect everything, so I’m not sure what you are getting at there, but that is more of a deep theological question that I won’t get in to.

        As to the calling “persecution”, as a more conservative Christian, I understand that sometimes conservative Christians can start yelling persecution the moment someone disagrees with them. This can be rather odd. Perhaps some people grow up in a like-minded environment and are a bit shocked to find out that not everyone agrees with them on every issue. I think we can disagree on many beliefs and issues without having to throw a fit every time the other side says that they don’t agree or feel a different way.

      • Wamo96

        I would have shared this on facebook — were it not for the knock on home schooling.

      • Donnie T

        I might be able to take articles like this more seriously if it wasn’t for the misuse of Matthew 6:5-6 No, Jesus was not against ALL displays of public religion, only hypocritical ones. By the author’s own admission, Tebow lives the same life on and off the field, so this verse is not talking about him.

        Also Luke 12:27-28 seems to suggest that yes, God does care about Tim Tebow’s games. If we believe God is all powerful and all knowing, then we have to believe he cares about ALL of his children, even if others feel it’s trifling for man to do so.

        • Sojourner_Truth

          Hate to say this, but most of the comments here sort of prove the author’s point.  In today’s America it’s not surprising actually that the average Christian is against an author with a degree in divinity, that presents a more biblical view of how we are to carry ourselves as believers.

          What he was attempting to do here was to open some modern day Christians eyes to what real Christ-like maturity looks like from a biblical standpoint.  His frustration is mainly with the overzealous fan base that like to pretend that Christians are overtly persecuted in America.  Also his use of Matthew 6 is not out of context.  The passage is quite clear that the warning goes to those who attempt to be seen in public and be honored for their well-doing.  This is precisely what Tim Tebow is doing.  It’s not open for debate it’s a fact.  Speaking after a football game and declaring that Jesus is your Lord and Savior is much more effective and powerful.

          Bowing after every touchdown scored and pointing to the sky after every pass completion is not necessarily God exalting.  It’s much more man exalting, especially when done so often to the point of ad-nauseum.  At some point you have to understand as a mature Christian that doing this will cause people to follow you rather than Christ.  Possibly to mock you on SNL, and Bill Maher instead of simply sharing your faith with people. Even Christ himself did not constantly exhort his own works.  We see Paul and other apostles perform miracles in the bible and not once that I can recall do they rejoice or pray openly in public with the INTENTION to be seen by men, maybe hold their release from prison in Acts in which they rejoiced for being persecuted (Really persecuted!).  Try preaching that in American churches.  LOL.  That is what Tebow is doing.  To make an argument to the contrary is ridiculous.  He is purposefully praying in public so that people will see him.  Is it intentionally done to be a witness?  Yes.  Is it ok to be an open witness for Christ.  Yes, it’s awesome!  Is there a right way and a wrong way to go about that according to the bible?  Yes.  Westboro Baptist Church members believe that they are a strong witness in a broken world.  Are they?  Is what they are doing biblical. No.  Could someone make a logic case that it’s okay?  Sure.  Do they?  Yes.  Again, is it biblical though, NO!

          This takes me back to the first paragraph.  It takes someone dedicated to following the biblical example of what it means to glorify our father in heaven.  The author is attempting to do that.  The following comments highlight in some ways the state of American Christianity today.  Every man does what he sees as right in his own eyes.  It’s a shame!

          • Drew

            Everything you have said I have to disagree with in the strongest of terms.

            Not to take anything away from Joe but you are incorrect – he is a
            student, not a graduate.  Also, I don’t see anyone who disagrees with
            Joe because of his background but rather because of his opinion on this
            matter.  Trying to invalidate our disagreement with Joe in that way is absurd.

            The Sermon on the Mount is almost always taken out of context.  Look at Matthew 5:39 and 5:44 – some take that to mean absolute pacifism, that Christians don’t even have the right to defend themselves.  However, almost everyone is in agreement that absolute pacifism would be an incorrect interpretation.  The same with Matthew 6:5-6.  Some take that to mean that any any sign of faith in public is wrong.  However, almost everyone is in agreement that the passage is fundamentally about the heart – that the person was not wrong for praying in public but rather for being a hypocrite – not being a Christian in private, then overtly being a Christian in public in order to gain favor.  If you took the passage literally (all public faith displays are banned), that would make 1 Thessalonians 5:17 (pray without ceasing) a tough pill to swallow – we would all have to lock ourselves up at home in order to pray in private all day!

            Tebow is not electing to go out in public, but rather, his occupation has him in the public eye.  Therefore, the real question is does Tebow (and any public figure) have the right to practice their faith in public?  As Matthew 6:5-6 says, it’s a matter of the heart.  If he is not a Christian in private and is only putting on a show in public for the masses, then he is a hypocrite.  If he is a Christian in private and is simply practicing his faith in public, then he is a better man than most.  Most of us would agree with the latter, since agreeing with the former mean that you are judging Tim Tebow’s heart and character.  Do you seriously think that Tebow is not sincere in his faith when he prays during games?  If so, you have just elevated yourself to the level of Christ, knowing what is in his heart.

            You take an odd stance on bowing after touchdowns or pointing to the sky.  A lot of NFL players do that, first of all.  If you are judgmental you can make the case they are glorifying themselves.  However, an objective person would point to the dozens of Biblical passages about giving thanks and praise to God.  Now, we shouldn’t just give praise to God when good things happen… however, Tebow thanks God in every press conference, regardless if he wins or loses.

            Since when should it be a concern to Christians what secularists or atheists think of us?  Jesus warns explicitly about caring what the world thinks of us and about conforming to what the world wants.  I feel sorry for you if you take notes from SNL or Bill Maher and model your life as to not draw their ire.

            You went over the line in a lot of your comments; I would be careful to judge the heart of another.

            • Sojourner_Truth

              “Trying to invalidate our disagreement with Joe in that way is absurd.”

              This wasn;t specifically addressed to you , but those Christians that barely ever open or read their bibles.  It’s common these days.

              “The Sermon on the Mount is almost always taken out of context.”

              I don’t support pacifism. Which is exactly why I said that he should to mostly verbally to exalting Christ through words during press conferences etc.  It’s a more effective way of reaching non-believers.

              “Some take that to mean that any any sign of faith in public is wrong. 
              However, almost everyone is in agreement that the passage is
              fundamentally about the heart – that the person was not wrong for
              praying in public but rather for being a hypocrite – not being a
              Christian in private, then overtly being a Christian in public in order
              to gain favor.”

              Not sure what poll or statistic you are referring to draw this conclusion, but……  If you read the whole chapter I don’t necessarily agree with what you are saying.  Someone can still love the Lord, but take advantage of public praise to be seen by men.  This is not my place to judge.  I don’t profess to know Tebow’s heart and never did.  What I’m saying is that it’s highly unlikely he does this (Tebow’s) at home after waking up in the morning or after buying his first home.  Did he get down in front of his real estate agent and Tebow after his closing?  Unlikely.  So, why do it each time you are on tv in front of a large audience?  Should I point to the sky each time at work when I’m noted for doing soemthing well.  Would that hurt or help my witness amongst co-workers.  Probably the latter if I overdid it.  It’s the exact same thing, and there is no way to get around explaining why you don’t do it yourself if there’s is nothing wrong with it.  I’ve many times talked to coworkers about my faith, yet I don’t praise God openly in front of them each time I do something good.  There’s a good reason for that, and it’s called being obedient to the Word of God.  We can’t afford to make up excuses or logical reasons for things in the gospel that are contrary to our culture.  “Lean not on thine own understanding”.  There’s no getting around it, it’s not biblical in the fashion that he does it.

              “that would make 1 Thessalonians 5:17 (pray without ceasing) a tough
              pill to swallow – we would all have to lock ourselves up at home in
              order to pray in private all day!”

              This is out of context, or at least a huge stretch.  Look at how Jesus told his disciples to pray…..  It’s not that we Can’t pray in public, it’s when we do it to be seen by men.  Yes, it’s a matter of the heart and I’m not judging Tebow’s salvation, just his motivation based the stage that he chooses to worship on.  I fully understand your point of view, just can;t seem to figure out why you don;t seem Tebow’s over the top approach as a blatant violation of scripture.  We all know that he’s a Christian.  Is it necessary to continue to purposefully pray in public?

              “You take an odd stance on bowing after touchdowns or pointing to the sky.  A lot of NFL players do that, first of all.”

              Relativism?  It’s no big deal because secular culture does it.  Therefore, relative to what the bible says, it’s ok?

              “Since when should it be a concern to Christians what secularists or atheists think of us?”

              It shouldn’t and that’s why I’m with Kurt Warner on this.  There is a right and biblical way to glorify God.  According to his word.  I just try to be obedient, regardless of my personal opinion.

              • Drew

                Most NFL players point to the sky as a way of saying “thanks” to God.  Saying thanks to God, is, of course, Biblical.  Most NFL players get down on one knee in prayer after scoring a touchdown also as a way to say “thanks” to God.  Now, I agree that it would be suspect if players only thanked God after big plays.  However, players also get down on one knee and pray before the game, after the game, and during injuries.  Also, Tebow thanks God at the start of EVERY post-game press conference, win or lose.

                Just because you prefer a certain style of worship or style of thanksgiving or style of prayer, does not automatically mean other styles are wrong.  When Tebow writes messages on his eye black and the camera guy picks it up, searches on Google for those Bible verses reach the millions!  When I wrote to Reggie White as a kid and got his autograph, he signed the card with a Bible verse, and you better believe the first thing I did was look up that passage in the Bible.

                You say you do not profess to know Tebow’s heart, but you say his motivations are not pure and what he is doing is not Biblical.  That is 100% contradictory and judgmental.  It’s funny you should question whether or not his public life matches his private life – from all accounts it does.  How do you know if he doesn’t get down on one knee and pray in the morning, as he does on the football field?  I should also note that I actually have on occasion pointed to the sky at my desk at work after a big deal “in thanks.”

                Tebow did the same stuff in high school as he did in college as he did in the NFL.  It’s not about the stage, it’s about consistency.  Should Tebow have stopped doing what he did as soon as he got to the NFL?  She he have hidden what he did all along?

                Also, you are wrong about Kurt Warner.  Kurt Warner was taken out of context by a journalist in an Arizona newspaper.  In fact, Kurt Warner went on the Jim Rome show a few days later to clarify his remarks.  (If you follow Warner on Facebook like I do, you would have noticed Warner saying this).  Warner did not say he disagreed with Tebow; in fact, he supports Tebow and what he is doing.  He just said that his style is different.

              • Sojourner_Truth

                You are right Tebow doesn’t do things that much different then others from the past.  He just does it a little more often and more consistently, which makes him stand out a little more.  None of this makes it right.  No need to argue over it, but I would just suggest that you go back to your bible and find one instance where Christ prays openly in public, other than when nailed to the cross.  Instead you’ll find him slipping away from his disciples in private and praying in the way that he suggested to his apostles in Matthew 6.  It’s very clear, but again no need to keep going back and forth.  Please don;t say that it’s my personal style of worship.  That is not true.  While I try my best to not judge other style of worship, listening to Christ’s advice of how to pray is not a personal opinion, and it’s unfair for you to try and characterize it that way.  Also look at the book of Daniel (who was KNOWN as prayer warrior) and notice that he never prays out in front of the king or others to be a “bold witness”.  Instead, the men know of his righteousness due to his deeds, and he makes the king a fan of his God.   Not by his in your face style for Christ.  I’m telling you that this is more cultural (American) than biblical, but you insist, although never give scripture to back up why.  Sure David danced, and I’m not afraid to pray in public or share my faith in words and proclaim the gospel boldly, but there’s a time and place for everything and discernment through the Holy Spirit is the key. 

                I like the bible verses under the eye, that’s cool.  Nothing wrong with that ;-)   You keep asuming that I’m some type of pacifist, I keep telling you that I’m not……

                Do you point to the sky every time you do something good at work, and make sure that people are around to see you, or do you slip aside and praise God more when you’re are alone from the crowd?  That’s what Matthew 6 is all about.  That’s why Jesus follows up after telling them how to not pray with a contrary example that is humble and edifying.

                “Tebow did the same stuff in high school as he did in college as he did
                in the NFL.  It’s not about the stage, it’s about consistency.  Should
                Tebow have stopped doing what he did as soon as he got to the NFL?  She
                he have hidden what he did all along?”

                Yes, maybe he should.  Especially if it ruins his witness.  The bible speaks about this as well.  If his public prayer is causing even other believers to stumble in their faith then the mature thing to do is consider it, pray about it, and perhaps stop doing it for the sake of unity and upholding your witness.  Read about this is Romans regarding the sabbath, vegetarian diet etc…

                God bless you brother, and it was a good conversation.

              • Drew

                So you have no problem with the post-game press conference or the eye black; your only problem is with him getting down on one knee and praying and pointing to the sky after plays.  Let’s address those topics then.

                Are you familiar with 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18, “Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.”  That is the reason Tebow praying during games.  That would directly contradict Matthew 6:5-6, given your incorrect interpretation.  However, given the correct interpretation of Matthew 6:5-6 – that Jesus was not banning public faith displays but rather chastising those who ONLY display faith in public – everything makes sense. 
                 
                You say the following: “I would just suggest that
                you go back to your bible and find one instance where Christ prays
                openly in public, other than when nailed to the cross.”  Sure, I will take that challenge.  Matthew 14:19, before feeding 5000 people, Jesus looks up at heaven, gives thanks, and broke the loaves of bread.  Granted, this is not a long prayer – but it’s not like Tebow is praying for five minutes on the sidelines.  He might pray for a few seconds, then he’s back to talking to his coaches and teammates.

              • Sojourner_Truth

                You’re still missing my point  You are trying to paint me in a corner regarding public displays of thankfulness toward God.  I made it clear that his approach with black eye stuff and post game press conferences are more than enough.  These fall as well into the categories of rejoice always and again I say rejoice, and also in everything give thanks.

                It goes with out saying that Jesus is speaking to people who are hypocritical.  I didn’t even care to mention it because it’s pretty straightforward. We don’t disagree there.

                Let me phrase this in another way.  Does the bible say that Jesus routinely showed thankfulness to God using nonverbal and prayer like gestures in front of crowds?  To the contrary often times he told them not to tell anyone?  In other words, after he healed someone, did he point to the sky, or buckle down on one knee and pray in front of everyone?  Do you see Paul or Stephen doing this? Peter?  Philip?  Heck even Judas?  LOL Do you see Daniel do this?  Jeremiah?  Isaiah?  Ezekiel?  Job?  Moses?  I can keep going. Is what Tebow does consistent with what we see in the bible?

                This is a simple yes or no answer.  I look forward to your reply.

                  The verses that you provide from Paul’s Epistle to the church Thessalonica is way out of context if you’re trying to prove what Tebow does as ok.  C’mon, you know better than that ;-)   I’m not saying that it isn’t valid, but it doesn’t give us license to go out and express ourselves all of the time publicly in the fashion that Tebow does.

                In fact, if you want to see the prayer without ceasing in practice, see the Orthodox Churches traditions, especially the monks (Mt. Athos) who do this everyday.  Study it, and the come back and tell me exactly how they carry it out.  It’ snot going to look anything like a football player who participates in secular sports that bows and points to the sky only after he scores touchdowns, but strangely enough not after being sacked or intercepted. 

                Romans 5: “And we[b] boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope.”

              • Drew

                I’m glad you’re the decider of which displays are okay and which displays are not.

                If anything, the eye black thing makes Tebow stand out.  It’s planned (not spontaneous) and he is the only athlete I know of to do that.  Whereas pointing at the sky after a big play is prevalent in sports. 

                You must have not read my response carefully so I will post it again – Matthew 14:19.  Actually, Jesus did look up at the sky and say thanks : )

              • Sojourner_Truth

                Nope, I’m not the decider of which displays are ok.  It’s God.  He wrote the bible, we are to obey it even if it goes against our pop culture model.  Nothing in the bible about putting a verse under your eye, or saying that you thank Jesus in the after-game press conference, so me and Jesus are cool with that.  LOL.  Just trying to keep it light hearted.

                Matthew 14:19 – good call and you make a good point.  There is your license for Tebow to do whatever he wants “in the name of Jesus”.  No real difference there right?  Jesus had just finished healing the sick and lame and then fed the 5,000.  Tebow does it after scoring touchdowns.  Which is obviously  much more exciting to most Christians these days. 

              • Drew

                I’m glad you’re the decider of which displays are okay and which displays are not.

                If anything, the eye black thing makes Tebow stand out.  It’s planned (not spontaneous) and he is the only athlete I know of to do that.  Whereas pointing at the sky after a big play is prevalent in sports. 

                You must have not read my response carefully so I will post it again – Matthew 14:19.  Actually, Jesus did look up at the sky and say thanks : )

              • Keith Carr61

                Then the miracles Christ performed were contrary to what you say. If he didnt want to call attention to his word or God he wouldnt have done these at all so you are telling me that Christ himself didnt live up to what you say literally.
                To compare what Tebow does to your work is illogical. He has been given much and he is trying to acknowledge such.
                Lets see the next problem will be the president saying “God Bless America”  go figure

              • Sojourner_Truth

                You need to go back and read my other posts to understand where I was coming from.  The bible is clear on how we should routinely practice prayer.  I’m not interested in debating what is clearly written in the bible.  You are attempting to use logic above to justify Tebow’s actions and I can’t argue against worldly logic with scripture.  The two are oil and water.

                Comparing what Tebow does at his job with what I do at my job is completely logical.  You and other just don’t want to confront such an argument because it invalidates the very reason that you idlolize Tim Tebow.  If his version of bold witnessing is completely acceptable then why don’t you imitate him?  If you wouldn’t do it at work, please give me a very clear and concise reason why not?  Thanks.

              • Keith Carr61

                If I landed a contract of major scale  that affectedf millions I would do exactly what Tebow does. You misunderstand the magnitude of what he is accomplishing and the arena he accomplishes it in. He is in an elite group of athletes. If I were in that catagory at work, play, etc… I would do the same thing if  what I was accomplishing was of major significance. LIke it or not he has the publics eye….do you? And all the atheist said…Amen Sojourner

              • Sojourner_Truth

                Sad to hear that you would do it with a large audience watching, but not from your cubicle at work…..

                That’s exactly what Jesus was getting at in Matthew 6

            • http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/ Morgan Guyton

              “Everything you have said I have to disagree with in the strongest of terms.” Why don’t you try being a little bit less hyperbolic in your disagreement with other people? I agree with what you said about the fact that his occupation has him in the public eye. That’s what I’ve realized in my own journey of thinking about this. He doesn’t jump in front of the cameras to pray. The cameras are coming to him. Anyway, I understand that you’re passionate, but try to use pastoral discretion in how you debate this with other people.

              • Drew

                You seem to agree with a lot of what I said and three others liked what I said.  I’ll stand by what I said, thank you very much.

            • http://twitter.com/magsasalin Ting Jobe

              I have a masters of divinity in biblical studies and I agree on Drew’s exegesis of Mat. 6:5-6 LOL!

              • Sojourner_Truth

                We don’t really disagree, but to each his own….. I guess.

            • Mac

              Very well said, Drew.  Rather than tangentially siding with the throng of Tebow haters out there, let those of us who name the name of Christ lift up and encourage the members of the Body of Christ regardless of their uniquely assigned areas of position and influence, and irrespective of their style and manner of witness.  We must minister grace with our words, especially when we are discussing those who so faithfully lift up the name of Jesus and stand for those for whom He died.

              To think that our Lord is not in the midst of this sensation  would be absurd, and to malign the motives of a young man who clearly attempts to direct attention to His Lord is ludicrous.  No, Tim Tebow is not perfect and yes, some of the outcry is fleshly and misdirected. How about letting our focus stay on giving thanks to our Lord and lifting up the name of Jesus as Tim does.  Jesus, then, will draw men men to Himself, and all glory and honor will be His alone.    

              • Drew

                Thanks for the eloquent post.

          • Keith Carr61

            ROMANS 16:17
            But I beg of you my brethren, beware of those who are causing division and subversion outside of the doctrine which you have learned, that you should stay away from them

      • Anonymous

        Really, a Master of Divinity student? And you throw Matt:6:5-6 out there like a champeen liberal.

        I am *not* a divinity student, but let me point out the exhortation there was to rend your heart, not your shirt - to refrain from professing piety in public *like a hypocrite* – meaning one who does so for acclaim only.

        Are you suggesting Tebow is a hypocrite who has no real faith in God? Who are you to make that judgement?  

        “The idea that God is actively involved with the outcome of a football game while millions of people around the world starve is offensive. This not only gives people who are not Christians the wrong impressions about God’s priorities, it betrays a fundamentally flawed theology that equates blessing with faithfulness.”

        Creating an utterly irrelevant parrallel between a football game and “millions of starving people” out of thin air is ludicrous. Christians and non-Christians alike celebrated Tebow and the Bronco’s win last night. Tebow has been ridiculed for daring to profess his faith in and love for God publicly, and here you are, supposed Divinity student, jumping on the bandwagon to complain he should instead be ashamed of that and hide his faith so the non-Christians won’t be offended.

        Who’s the real hypocrite?

        • http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/ Morgan Guyton

          So quoting a Bible verse makes you a “champeen” liberal? And you don’t think people should get theological training before becoming pastors? What does champeen mean?

      • Anonymous

        You know – why don’t YOU read Matt 6: 5-6 and then take a good long look in the mirror, *Joe*.

        • Donnie T

          I was thinking the exact same thing. If we’re only supposed to pray behind closed doors, wouldn’t that mean it’s a sin to pray at church? To pray in front of anybody else? And a sin to have web sites like RLC?

          Matt 5:15-17 is a good verse to remember in this discussion.

          • Drew

            I wonder what the Matthew 6:5-6 literalists think of the Billy Graham crusades.

      • Drew

        “First, let me say that I am a Tim Tebow fan.”  When you feel compelled to start an article that way, immediately on the offensive, I would hesitate to write it in the first place.

        “But I’m not a fan for the reason many Christians are.”  You like Tebow because he is good and because of an arbitrary measure (Gator alumni).  What’s wrong with liking Tebow because he is good and because he is a good Christian role model in an area (entertainment) that doesn’t have many?

        “I won’t go so far as calling his public prayer hypocritical, but..”
        “I don’t want to be critical, and I won’t ever question Tebow’s
        Character… With that said…” Again, you are on the offensive throughout this article.

        “Tebow mania also touches upon a larger problem among conservative Evangelicals: A persecution complex.”  Yes, Christians are not being murdered in the U.S. as they are in other countries.  However, there is a continuous drumbeat towards secularism and atheism that is rapidly increasing in the U.S. and in the rest of the world.  Tebow is being pounded by secular culture (SNL) and by atheist culture (Bill Mahrer) to just give a few examples.

        “I have often promised myself that I was not going to write about this. I
        hate joining internet bandwagons, especially this late in the game.
        However…”  I think this is the fourth time where you go on the offensive by clarifying your remarks in length.

        “Many people have interpreted Tebow’s 316 passing yards as some sort of
        portent, a sign that God has blessed the Broncos and ordained their
        victory.”  This is a lie and I’d like you to show proof that Christians are seriously saying that.  Sure, there are jokes between friends, but I have seen zero serious comments to that effect.

        I understand that it is the “hipster” thing to do, to hate on Tebow.  The secular world is doing it, the atheists are doing it, and heck, there are three articles on this website alone and not a single paragraph is dedicated to Tebow in a positive light.  It is the pinnacle of hipster-ism to be a Christian yet be constantly ashamed of Christians and Christianity and use Matthew 6 to pretend that Christianity should exist in the context of keeping it a big secret.

        Personally that is the reason why I like Tebow so much – in a world where Christians feel ashamed of being a Christian, Tebow is not ashamed.

        • http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/ Morgan Guyton

          I don’t think you can pin it all on hipster-ness. As Christians, we have both been given the example of Jesus and the counter-example of the Pharisees. For the last 30 years, the Pharisees have dominated the public face of Christianity in America. We do have a major image problem in our society right now and it isn’t something we can just blame on the “liberal media.” I think many Christians are genuinely uneasy about how their faith is being represented because they’re concerned about the barriers that are being created for non-believers. But I do recognize that there’s a tendency to pass from this genuine evangelistic concern into a cynicism that is worldly.

          • Doug

            “For the last 30 years, the Pharisees have dominated the public face of Christianity in America. ”

            Sorry Morgan but the audacity in that statement is breathtaking. Thats a mighty big brush you’re wielding.

          • Drew

            Thank you for recognizing that there’s a tendency to pass from genuine concern into a cynicism that is worldly.  I just think that it’s more widespread then you think.

          • Keith Carr61

            I believe Jesus was crucified because the masses didnt want to hear what he had to say :) ……Putting it into context…those who agreed with the masses, whether it was his delivery or his message put him to death just the same.

        • Keith Carr61

          Drew, what an inspired and thorough comment regarding this whole subject. It is a fact that the world hates Christ and his message. They hate all who are bold with their stance on the gospel. It should be very disturbing that the only posts on here that are about Tim Tebow are condemning his stance for Christ (and yes you are irregardless of how he is doing it). I dont think that Tim has ever said, “Im winning because God is on my side” but what he has said is that for EVERY part of his life he gives God the glory. For some reason some supposed christians have a problem with that. News Flash….If he was losing he would say the same thing…It is the media who puts him in the spotlight so accept it for what it is….His life undisclosed of  which God is the center piece. I will again state that it is amazing to me that this is such a big deal but yet Muslims who block traffic, hallways, or anywhere they are when the call to pray happens, are overlooked. They are just practicing their faith right? In fact there are articles on here that call christians out who may not be sympathetic to the Muslim religion.
          The problem with this secular and progressive movement in our churches is the timid, “I dont want to offend”, aplogetic way they go about trying to sell the gospel…..Look folks..God doesnt need your approval nor your delicate, meek, timid, apologetic approach to spreading the gospel. In fact Im sure he mentions about being “luke warm” somewhere. If Tebow offends you as a Christian then maybe you should revisit the “Great Commision” There are so many reasons to give this guy credit as a “person” and not as a football player that your point is mute.
          As a Baptist, Mr. Perdue’s article offends me and I wonder just exactly what kind of progressive agenda is being taught at our schools.

        • Speedyrobert51

          The Bible states that if We are ashamed of Jesus before men He(Jesus) will be ashamed of Us before the Father(GOD). Eternity does it matter? I bet my soul it does and I love the fact that I have been adopted as a brother to Jesus and an heir to all that is and all that will ever be!

      • Sojourner_Truth

        My thoughts, precisely.  This is so timely.  Thank you for stating so clearly why Americanized Evangelicals are sometimes so annoying although still our brothers and sisters in the faith.  Luckily these are really small bones to pick though.  LOL

      • Speedyrobert51

        win or lose Tim Tebow has people seeing  the possibility of  a living God!  2012 has everybody thinking of a end of time and it is refreshing to see someone who gives thanks to Jesus for eternal salvation. We will all bow and give account and maybe if we practiced the (TE) bow a little more, all aspects of this short stint on planet earth will help Us give thanks to Jesus for his sacrafice!

        • Drew

          When Tebow plays there are millions of Google searches that occur for the Bible verses that he puts on his eye black (sometimes they are different).  Very cool stuff.

      • http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/ Morgan Guyton

        I like Tim Tebow because he’s been a positive influence on guys in my congregation. I actually wrote a piece today about some of the good things I found in his biography: http://morganguyton.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/five-things-i-liked-in-tebows-autobiography/

        I don’t have a problem with Tebow at all, but there are two things that make me queasy about Tebow fans.

        One is that in our ultra-ideological age, Christianity has been reduced to a sports-fan mentality. It’s become about cheering for our team and booing the other team, instead of bearing witness to the amazing joy that we’ve discovered and trying to figure out how to break through the barriers other people have rather than sneering at them. God wants for everyone to be on his team; he wants us to cultivate the kind of humility and gentleness that will help us to be good witnesses for His kingdom. That means that it’s a problem when we tweet, “What you think NOW, atheist football fans?!” each time Tebow scores a touchdown.

        The other problem is idolatry. In the past 20 years, evangelical Christianity has created a celebrity culture that is the mirror image of the mainstream celebrity culture. Our celebrities don’t do drugs or cuss or have premarital sex, but the uncritical affirmation of the concept of celebrity is a problem in itself. Even if they talk about Jesus and even if the people who worship them say that it’s about Jesus doesn’t mean that it’s not idolatry.

        • Drew

          Do you realize how trivial you sound – that you can’t find a beef with Tebow so you have to have a beef with some of Tebow’s fans?  Talk about going out of your way…

          • Trippup

            On the contrary Drew, I think Morton makes two very topical and thoughtful points. I lke Tim. I pulled for him mightily in the game Sunday night. He’s an emotional guy that wears his emotions and his faith right out there on his sleeve. I also agree that some of the genuflecting and persistent “Tebowing”, after a while…. well just seem to be more about him than they do Him. I wonder how Tim will feel about all this 20 years down the road. He’s such a young guy and full of fire. What was it Paul said about choosing deacons….  I am paraphrasing here:  that they should be experienced and not new converts, less they become conceited. I am not, in any way, implying that this is the case here. Just that it is a danger for any Christian, not just new Christians. Take it from one who knows: it can happen before one realizes it has happened. I also thought Looking for Light’s comments were very telling and painfully truthful. We should all have a care…..      

            • Questioning

              Corrections: should have said Morgan instead of Morton and my post should have been from Questioning not Trippup. Not hitting on all cylinders today.

              • Questioning

                ugh….

            • Drew

              Trippup,

              By all accounts Tim Tebow is an amazing Christian on and off the field.  However, I get into my car, and secular sports radio is just tearing Tebow apart.  Then I get home, and the atheists like Bill Maher are just tearing Tebow apart.  Then I watch SNL and see the secularists skewer Tebow.  Then I go onto a “Christian” blog and see Tebow skewered because he does not fit their personal liberal beliefs on how a Christian should act.

              At some point, when do we cross the line from trying to build up Tebow (ie, suggest he change his Evangelical approach) rather than tear him down?  I think the liberal Christians on this site have sprinted across that line.

              • Doug

                Spot on Drew.

              • Questioning

                The author’s motivation for writing the blog are known only by him and God. Same for all the other related blogs. I cannot and should not judge whether there were any real attempts on “tearing anyone down”. I simply believe he makes some valid points about the reaction to Mr. Tebow within the Christian community and frankly I suspect Mr. Tebow might agree. We have elevated him to a level that could be unhealthy and dangerous. There are some who would like to believe that God is guiding and controlling events in this young man’s football endeavors. God is sovereign and it is certainly within His power to do so. If that is the case Super Bowl here we come, but now what does it mean if Tim loses? Did he somehow fall out of favor with God?  What if there is a stumble in his personal life? We have placed him on a pedestal with a long, long way to fall. The secular world, the non-spiritual mind does not understand these things. The author’s comments about the “persecution” complex are very topical as well and frankly I agree with a lot of what he is saying but I don’t have time to go into detail. Finally, I despise how we slap labels on people nowadays. I think to call someone a liberal or a conservative diminishes both us and them. I am neither one. I do like the progressive moniker though. Jesus was progressive.           

              • Drew

                You despise how we slap labels on people, but then you say you like the progressive label and slap that label on Jesus?  Think about that one for a second.

                I have no problem with different political beliefs but I do have a problem with elevating those beliefs above Scripture.  The point I was trying to make is that some posters here explicitly or implicitly were trying to make a Biblical case against Tebow, when really, their case against Tebow is not Biblical (using their own liberal beliefs about religion having no place in public; also, purposefully stirring dissent).  If people want to make a nuanced argument about how it’s okay that Tebow is doing what he does, but it may be more effective to go about it another way, I wouldn’t have a problem with it (although I would disagree).

              • Questioning

                I fully expected that reply on my progressive comment and yes I did think about it, before I posted it. Look up the definitions of liberal, conservative and progressive and come to your own conclusions. I guess I must be dense as a stump because I just do not see where the author is elevating his beliefs above scripture. Maybe some replies have stuck a toe in those waters, I did not go back and reread them. I don’t see where he said anything about religion not having a place in public either. In an earlier reply I talked about motivation. I think it might do us all some good to consider our motivation for being here. If it’s just to tear down and poke holes in those wacko liberals with their wacky ideas then maybe that’s the wrong reason. I guess that’s a bit harsh. I said I was neither liberal nor consevative and I really try to stay there; however, it was not always that way for me. I used to be a fairly staunch and stubborn righty, but a life event has caused me to question some things and stretch my mind a bit more. I don’t know why this has happened, but I do know that, if I allow Him to, that God can use it for good. I often see people here rolling out the “Test every spirit” passage and rightfully so, but that applies to every wind whether from the north, south, east, or west.  Or more topically, from left or right. I am pretty convinced of one difference in what I often read here and what I feel about myself. Many are somehow utterly convinced that they are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. I honestly do not know whether I am right or whether I am wrong. I suspect some of both. ”There is a way that seems right to a man.”         

              • Questioning

                And just so there’s no misunderstandings about intent…. respectfully, I did not slap a label on Jesus. I said he “was” progressive not “was a” progressive. Their’s a difference between saying, for example, Questioning is a liberal, vs saying Questioning is liberal. One defines, the other describes.  

              • Drew

                For the record, I am not a troll.  I came to this website and have been posting here for quite a while because I am a fan of Tony Campolo.  I listen to his podcasts whenever I can and own/read some of his books.  I am one of the few people who comment on multiple articles, with both praise and criticism.  However, I have found that a lot of the contributors/commentors to this website often stray far from where Tony is, and always in a “liberal” direction.  If the contributors/commentors strayed far from where Tony is in a “conservative” direction, I would say the same thing (and I have).

                While I am not a fan of the article, most of my comments have been aimed at the comments on the article.  Since you have not read them all, as you admitted, that is where some confusion exists between us.

                I fully know I don’t have all the answers, nobody does.  All the more reason to stop nitpicking at Tebow.  It’s time to stop inspecting “possible” specks of dust in Tebow’s eye, and take the planks out of our own eyes.

              • Mac

                Exactly.  We are to be good unto all men, especially unto the household of faith. This young man deserves our fervent prayers and our encouragement.

      • Doug

        Dwight Carleson wrote a book Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded? Well it goes way beyond that we shoot our own soldiers too. Here is Tebow trying to be a witness in a world where almost everywhere anti-Christian values are cherished in the media, business and sports world. This whole website seems to be dominated by Christians who seem to be ashamed of any witness , who condemn others witness as ‘insensitive’, ‘pharasitical’ etc etc etc ( strangely their criticism itself often mirrors the very values they claim to oppose). The whole common denominator of their criticism is anything other than tepid lukewarm witnessing is insensitive and as long as we ‘get alongside’ anyone sinning without telling them their sinning thats okay. As long as we are lukewarm ‘nice’ witnesses the sinner will see how nice we are, think ‘Christians aren’t so bad after all’ and abandon their ways. I don’t see it playing out that way. Tebow will not cause the sky to fall down because of his witness but he does seem to be a Christian warrior witnessing to a fallen world. I doubt the sky will fall down because of one Christian sportsman witnessing in a testosterone, $$$ laden , aggressive sports culture.
        He may indeed be a real role model to impressionable young men and if so good on him.
        It takes courage to witness as he does so God bless him.

        • Donnie T

          The saddest thing is, the “progressive” Christians on sites like this tend to be even pettier than atheists when attacking Tebow.

      • Donnie T

        I Peter 5:7 is another good verse to remember in all of this. Note that we are to cast ALL of our anxiety on Him! All of it. The anxieties that seems big and insignificant. 

        That, and Tebow’s job is football. How many of us pray about job decisions? How is Tebow any different?

      • http://twitter.com/magsasalin Ting Jobe

        Hey Joe, I don’t think God is complaining that 9 million people googled John 3:16 because of Tebow.  I understand where you’re coming from, but you are mixing the witness of embarrassing conservative evangelical politics with a person whose actual life is a witness to the gospel.  And God may not care who wins a football game but he sure cares about how each game shapes Tebow’s heart.

        • Sojourner_Truth

          Yes, but what would stop them from also googling Revelation 3:16?  LOL

      • looking for light

        I found this website when I was researching how to become a Christian. So Christians aren’t really about love & turning the other cheek but become stiff-spined brawlers over doctrine or culture or even “what Christ meant”? So those 40,000 kids dying todat of hunger & disease that Tony Campolo talked about are yesterday’s news?  This all just breaks my heart.. Glad I stopped by though. You’ve opened my eyes.

      • Larry Jones

        Great article Joe.  If it was a bit shorter, I would ask you if I could print it in this Sunday’s bulletin at the church I pastor.  I am a Tebow supporter too.  But I appreciate his character and testimony more than his skills as a football player.  They are seemingly more important to him as well.  Thank God.   LDJ 

        • http://Themainlineevangelical.blogspot.com/ Joseph Perdue

          Thanks Larry. I’m not sure what the RLC policy is on quoting blogs that appear on their site, but if they are okay with if feel free to quote as much as you would like.

          • Keith Carr61

            Id like to be a fly on your church wall if you print it lol

      • Joemccullough

         I’m sure Tebow is a nice guy and he’s got the right to do what he wants. That being said,  a stance of humble prayer has no place as a touchdown celebration. Of course, in our image-heavy, substance-light culture most Christians think it’s great. These are usually the same Christians who memorize the 3rd chapter of John while ignoring the sermon on the mount. Jesus is easier to deal with if he’s kept in the symbolic role of redeemer as opposed to life teacher. If the message of the sermon on the mount is true than the evangelical church (Tebow included) needs to be turned on its head.
         

        • Drew

          The only thing I see that is image-heavy and substance-light is your post.  You call out Christians for being shallow, but then you judge Tim Tebow by watching a football game and disagreeing with him giving thanks to God after a big event at his job?

          • Joemccullough

            I never disagreed with him giving thanks to God, indeed in all things give thanks. While I am just a fool for Christ whose opinions mean nothing, it would seem that bowing on one knee when one scores a touchdown puts a powerful symbol of submission to God into the realm of the spiked football or the Icky Shuffle. All across America, fans and players alike are “Tebowing” at various events for the point of humor. That symbol of prayer means something to me and I find it offensive. Those who suggest that this is an effective  tool of evangelism amaze me. If Ecclesiastes 3 is right, there is a time for every activity under heaven.There are many followers of Jesus who play or have played professional sports before Tebow who have been outstanding witnesses to the role of faith in their lives (Vince Carter, Drew Brees and Mariano Rivera to name a few) without the histrionics. My hope is that Tim might learn a little bit from them.

            • Keith Carr61

              So someone who has a prayer answered and stands up in public to give God glory offends you also? What is offending you is the secular view of Christianity…How about you let God be offended by them and you support your fellow christian brother….how about that Joe?? Huh? What is wrong with that? or would you rather just stand aside and throw darts with the secular world??  You made your choice ….now explain it to someone who buys your arguement. ;)

              • Joemccullough

                I made my choice? I’m throwing darts? By your next post, I suppose I’ll be part of the Taliban. All for questioning the role of Jesus in a touchdown celebration. I wish Tebow (and you) all the success in the world. P.S. If you don’t know who Mariano Rivera or Tony Dungy are, check them out on espn.com.

            • Drew

              Joe,

              I don’t see Carter, Brees, or Rivera mentioned on this blog but I see three posts about Tebow.  I’ve never seen a national phenomena around Carter, Brees, or Rivera as I have seen around a Reggie White or Tim Tebow.  In fact, I had no idea that Carter, Brees, or Rivera were Christians, and I bet the average sports fan would either.  Not there is anything wrong with a Carter/Brees/Rivera approach, but a Tebow/White approach has a way of reaching the masses and making an impact.

              I am glad to see you don’t take a Biblical stand against Tebow, but rather, a stand of personal preference.  You prefer he thank God in a different way, and that’s understandable.  However, look at the incredible impact he is having.  What he’s doing is working.

              By the way, people mocking Tebow says more about the state of the world today than it does about Tebow.

        • Keith Carr61

          So ignore “The Great Commission”? and just try to live a Godly life…..kind of sounds like the Pharisees to me.

          • Joemccullough

            That’s some major inferring you’re doing there, Keith.Where did I say to ignore “The Great Commission”?  Are you suggesting that if Tim Tebow doesn’t genuflect then he’s ignoring his duty to Jesus? I guess there’s a bunch of Christian quarterbacks with a lot to answer for. And the bit about “just try to live a Godly life”?!! You act like that’s some easy thing. Jesus’ version of a Godly life was a fulfillment  of the law which was was reviled by the Pharisees and set the standard very high. For me it’s a perpetual struggle and a life’s journey toward the path of the cross. But I do know that when folks live in the image of Christ that many people take notice. Just listen to other ball players talking about the likes of Mariano Rivera or Tony Dungy. In what way have these humble men ignored “The Great Commission”?  

            • Keith Carr61

              Mariano who?   Tony who? ;) God didnt give us a rubiks cube to confound us. He gave us a simple plan but a high standard to live up to. You are criticizing Tebow for his”living” or his “dying” to self?….The point is the Pharisees were all about works and laws…..Tebow is about a Saviour who died for all…why cant you see the difference?
              You are doing the inferring when you question a players kneeling after a touchdown my friend.

      • Gina

        Love, love, love. Could not have said it better. Have not heard it said better. Nailed it! Thanks for that!

      • Keith Carr61

        Its sad when I hear an atheist say…..”Well, He defends his faith much more than most christians I know…..Most of the time I cant tell what side of the fence they’re on”  Kind of puts your article in perspective Joe.

        • Drew

          He’s not ashamed – and it’s not surprising that even some who disagree with him respect him.

      • Edward

        What Pro Football team did you play for Joe?  What Division I school did you lead to a national championship?  What year did you win the Heismann?  When have you gone on national t.v. in front of 10 million fans and talked about Jesus Christ?  In short, who cares what you think.  Certainly not me. 

      • Edward

        What Pro Football team did you play for Joe?  What Division I school did you lead to a national championship?  What year did you win the Heismann?  When have you gone on national t.v. in front of 10 million fans and talked about Jesus Christ?  In short, who cares what you think.  Certainly not me. 

        • Sojourner_Truth

          Very Christ-like……..

        • Joemccullough

          Man, that’s exactly how Jesus measures people, Heismans and tv time. Good call.

      • Joemccullough

        Man looks on the outside, God looks at the heart. There’s no Heisman trophy in heaven. If the writer played Division II but was really good, would you listen to him then?

      • Sojourner_Truth

        So someone on here tells me that if they were like Tebow – professional athlete, large captive audience, landed a large contract, that they would do the same thing that Tebow does, specifically Tebowing etc….  However, they would not acknowledge that they would do it if they worked in a regular office behind a cubicle.

        If that does not summarize the danger behind not taking Matthew 6 serious I don’t know what does.  So, I will Tebow and point to the sky on the large scale when tons of people are watching, yet DISTANT but I will not do it around people that I’m close with at work on a one-on-one level.  Too close for comfort, eh?

        This is the type of Christian hypocrisy that the author is saying annoys him.  We ride the coattails of a culture warrior icon like Tebow and want him to symbolize this in your face style of Christianity that many modern day evangelicals have come to love/worship while hiding their own faith in their back pocket.  Clever.

        Welcome to modern day evangelicalism, where the harvest is plentiful and the workers, well they prefer to just cheer for Tim Tebow.  It’s easy.

        Cultural warfare by any means necessary, personal spiritual warfare at no cost whatsoever………..

        • Drew

          Your thoughts on this matter are blinded by hate and are starting to become irrational and delusional.  The way you are trashing Christians I would think you are an atheist.

          There are different ways to be a witness and I find it appalling that instead of simply disagreeing with his style of witness, that you cross the line and question his heart, motivation, character, and try to abuse a Bible passage in order to do so.

          We all have platforms to witness on, and the witness differs by individual preference and by the platform itself.  It’s not hypocritical to appreciate a style of witness yet not practice that style of witness.  It’s not hypocritical to tailor your witness to what platform you are on.

          To cynically speculate that the Christians who are supporting Tebow are shallow or cowardly is a really dark, evil place to go.  Should I speculate that your screen name is “Sojourner Truth” because you prefer a screen name over actually doing anything about gender and racial equality?  That is EXACTLY what you are accusing large swaths of Christians of doing.

        • Donnie T

          And again, if taken to its logical conclusion, your reading of Matt 6 would mean this site should not exist. That public worship should not exist. It’s had to take you seriously when you’re doing the exact thing you’re complaining about.

          • Doug

            Really good point Donnie. Spot on.

          • Sojourner_Truth

             Unclear on your language here, it’s incoherent.  Why should this site not exist?  Are you referring to this article or the red letter christian site as a whole?  I don’t disagree with public worship, it’s the fact that someone does it in one arena, but not in others.  It’s inconsistent.

            • Drew

              “Someone does it in one arena, but not in others.”

              I didn’t know you were a family member or personal friend of Tebow.

          • Drew

            Exactly.  This post is two days old; today’s post (Thursday) is a prayer to Haiti, and in the blurb about the author, it says all proceeds are going to charity.  Now, according to Sojourner’s skewed logic, not only is the public prayer wrong, but telling us that 100% of the proceeds go to Charity is wrong, because he is telling us of a good deed that is being done.

        • Doug

          SJ
          There are a lot of negative innuendoes in your post re evangelical Christians which are grossly inductive without justification.

          You say ‘personal spiritual warfare at no cost whatsoever…..’ Totally disagree it costs bigtime to be a witness like that in an arena be it sports, media or business.

          I’ve heard liberal leftists full of vitriol and hate described thus – “They love humanity but hate people.” Sounds like some of the new ‘enlightened ones’ Christians here “Love Christ but hate Christianity.”

          Isn’t it both a cheap shot and too easy to pidgeon hole Tebow ( and similair ) as insincere cultural warriors ?

      • Sojourner_Truth

        To Drew, Doug, and others who’ve replied numerous times below:

        Again, I can’t make it clear enough that it’s a matter of the heart and
        that hypocrisy is certainly the key component to understanding Matthew
        6.  I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you.  I’ve already said
        that.

        However, I can’t agree with you that Tebow’s outward form of nonverbal
        witnessing is Christlike.  We need to take our cues from the bible and
        there are plenty examples that I’ve kindly given you to look into.  You
        won’t find a single biblical character’s witness that looks remotely
        similar to Tebow’s “Tebowing”.  To the contrary, you will find many who
        preached the gospel boldly and declared Jesus as their savior.  This
        part of Tebow’s witness I admire greatly.  In that way please don’t find
        my criticism as a judgment against Tebow personally, but more or less a
        critical look at the whole Tebowing component, and his fans Christian or non-Christians that find it to be “okay”.

        I totally understand your heart here and completely can relate to why
        you feel that a unique witness is not necessarily wrong and I agree to a
        certain point.  Although, if every time Tebow scored a TD he broke out
        speaking in tongues or danced “like David before the Lord”, I have a
        strange hunch that he would not have nearly as many fans – Christian or
        non-Christian.  Sure, it would be unique and his personal right to do
        it, but not necessarily right or biblical.

        On that note, let’s just agree to disagree. Final post, Love you in Christ.  God Bless.

      • Sojourner_Truth

        Again, I can’t make it clear enough that it’s a matter of the heart and that hypocrisy is certainly the key component to understanding Matthew 6.  I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you.  I’ve already said that.

        However, I can’t agree with you that Tebow’s outward form of nonverbal witnessing is Christlike.  We need to take our cues from the bible and there are plenty examples that I’ve kindly given you to look into.  You won’t find a single biblical character’s witness that looks remotely similar to Tebow’s “Tebowing”.  To the contrary, you will find many who preached the gospel boldly and declared Jesus as their savior.  This part of Tebow’s witness I admire greatly.  In that way please don;t find my criticism as a judgment against Tebow personally, but more or less a critical look at the whole Tebowing component.

        I totally understand your heart here and completely can relate to why you feel that a unique witness is not necessarily wrong and I agree to a certain point.  Although, if every time Tebow scored a TD he broke out speaking in tongues or danced “like David before the Lord”, I have a strange hunch that he would not have nearly as many fans – Christian or non-Christian.  Sure, it would be unique and his personal right to do it, but not necessarily right or biblical.

        Final post, God bless.

      • Sojourner_Truth

        Again, I can’t make it clear enough that it’s a matter of the heart and that hypocrisy is certainly the key component to understanding Matthew 6.  I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with you.  I’ve already said that.

        However, I can’t agree with you that Tebow’s outward form of nonverbal witnessing is Christlike.  We need to take our cues from the bible and there are plenty examples that I’ve kindly given you to look into.  You won’t find a single biblical character’s witness that looks remotely similar to Tebow’s “Tebowing”.  To the contrary, you will find many who preached the gospel boldly and declared Jesus as their savior.  This part of Tebow’s witness I admire greatly.  In that way please don;t find my criticism as a judgment against Tebow personally, but more or less a critical look at the whole Tebowing component.

        I totally understand your heart here and completely can relate to why you feel that a unique witness is not necessarily wrong and I agree to a certain point.  Although, if every time Tebow scored a TD he broke out speaking in tongues or danced “like David before the Lord”, I have a strange hunch that he would not have nearly as many fans – Christian or non-Christian.  Sure, it would be unique and his personal right to do it, but not necessarily right or biblical.

        Final post, God bless.

        • Drew

          The problem is a Pharisical interpretation of Matthew 6:5-6, and I would advise you to speak with some pastors about the passage before giving any more incorrect advice on it.

          Matthew 6:1-18 is about the difference between doing acts with the intent of pleasing God and doing acts with the intent of pleasing man.  Despite your protests, Jesus was not giving us more laws to follow.

          You can go to any of the three passages and muck them up with Pharisical interpretations.  You can say that Jesus is banning any form of righteousness that is seen by others.  Does that make it a sin to give money to a homeless guy on the street because other people might see you?  Should we not take up a collection in Church because all your neighbors know who puts money in the plate and who does not?  You can say that Jesus is banning prayer on the street or in Church.  Does that mean every Church in the United States is sinning?  You can say that Jesus is saying that one cannot look somber while fasting.  Does that mean if I choose to fast, and it were to affect me physically, that the minute I had a somber look on my face I was sinning?

          Was Jesus making illegal prayer in public or in Church?  Was Jesus making it a law that we can only pray in private?  No, and that misses the entire point of the passage (intent to please God versus intent to please man).

          Which brings us back to Tebow.  Is he a hypocrite – someone who is virtuous in public but not in private?  By all accounts, no.  Is Tebow intent on pleasing man but not pleasing God, someone who points to the sky or gets down on one knee to be seen by man rather than to praise God?  In my opinion, no.  There is a difference between your acts being seen in public, and doing the acts only so that they are seen in public.

          I think there is a real discussion that could be had about Tebow, which is where Kurt Warner is at right now.  On one hand, Warner admits that he would go with a different approach than Tebow.  On the other hand, Warner admits that he supports Tebow 100% and that he is doing nothing wrong.  I have no problem with discussing it as a matter of style and effectiveness.  However, this article and many of the comments have not been about that.  Rather, it is about purposeful dissension and finding a speck in a neighbor’s eye, and I don’t get it.

          • Sojourner_Truth

            You keep attempting to straw man my argument by pushing me into a corner.  Why do you insist on replying with hyperbolic responses like “Pharisaical (correct spelling) interpretation”.  We are just simply missing each other when it comes to this because your are misinterpreting and misrepresenting my point in an attempt to prove yours.  For instance, I already made it super clear that public prayer is in no way wrong.  You proceeded for a paragraph though to denigrate my point, knowing good and well that’s not what I believe.  It’s really disappointing when we can’t have a rational discussion on a Christian website because your intent is to prove a point and not to find any common ground.

            I will attempt to make it very clear, one last time.  We have the SAME  interpretation of the scripture.  However you interpretation is more perhaps optimistic them mine. My angle is that the heart is desperately wicked (Jeremiah).  You interpret my angle as void of the spirit and that I’m looking at it as the letter of the law.  I am not.  I understand the difference between the law and the new covenant.  In the same way that you have constantly accused me of making judgments, I could say the same of you.  Why and how are you able to judge that Tebow has good intentions when he Tebows all of the time?  You may not be making a negative judgment, but you are attempting to extrapolate something that you can’t know for certain.

            Please understand I’m not out right accusing Tebow of being in the wrong.  As a matter of fact it’s very similar to your last paragraph in questioning the style and effectiveness.  I’ve said the same thing on several posts now and I guess you are just now deciding to acknowledge this point as valid.  Go back and look, it was almost verbatim. 

            Back to my point.  Instead, I’m pointing to the fact that, as in the last game, he ran for instance 50+ yards away, from where he originally passed the ball to a receiver.  The ran all the way down to his endzone and Tebow’d.  It’s silly that we are debating this, but my point is that he often seems to go out of his way to pray to God in thanks. Could he not have prayed right where he was? Could he not have said a silent prayer to God in his mind.  No, instead he treads all the way down to the endzone and Tebows.  Of course he was excited.  I get that.  Of course he may have been thankful to God.  I get that.  Of course he reserves the right to that!  It’s America!  No one is arguing about his right to exercise his beliefs or exhuberance and self expression toward God.  This is what Kurt Warner is referring too when asking him politely to bring it down a notch.  No one wants him to stop witnessing, and nobody wants to rob him of his joy or stand in judgment.  I have no ill will toward Tebow.

            That is how I am referring to the scripture in Matthew 6.  Is it not hypocritical to purposefully run all the way down a field to kneel, if the intent is to be seen by the cameraman, even if you just want to reach a wide audience.  You say that God judges on the heart and if it’s just to be a witness then it’s no big deal.  I say it’s possible that there is more behind the Tebowing than meets the eye, in terms of where his heart is at.  In other words, it is possible to “do the right thing” while sinning in your heart.  Would you agree?

            On a final note, if you choose to reply please hold off on saying that my interpretation is wholly incorrect.  It’s unfair to assume that you have a perfected theology.  I am an AVID bible reader.   I read and study daily.  I also attend a church that strictly teaches expository.  This is quite rare in America these days.  I say all of that to say that we should be hesitant to address one another in a demeaning fashion just because it’s on a blog.  It’s fine to say that you disagree, but I never referred to your interpretation as completely flawed, heretical, the law, or Pharisaical.  It’s unnecessary and others on here asked you from the beginning to refrain from speaking in this fashion.  It’s not helping and again it’s unbiblical .  We can speak to one another in a loving fashion and just agree to disagree.

            • Drew

              Now that you agree with my interpretation of scripture, we can move on to the real issue.  The real issue is that you accuse Tebow of sin based on Matthew 6:5-6.  You think his intent is to please man.  I think that his intent is to please God.

              Tebow did not run down the field to kneel; he ran down the field to be with his teammates.  If we would have knelt immediately, he would have been at least fifty yards away from his teammates!  He ran down the field to be with his teammates, as every athlete in every sport does when their team wins an important game.

              As for the video and camera work, are you serious?  You think it’s a “coincidence” that they caught Tebow kneeling down on one knee?  It’s obvious a video guy was instructed to follow Tebow the entire time and that the producer was to switch to the video trained on Tebow as soon as he knelt.  As for the camera guys, Tebow is already on his knee when the media vultures swoop in to take pictures.

              So to answer your question, no, I don’t think there’s more than meets the eye.  I am not that cynical to think that Tebow sits up at night thinking of ways to draw attention to himself.  I think he just is himself – an outspoken Evangelical.  I give Tebow the benefit of the doubt, since by all accounts he is virtuous off the field as well.  For you to not give him the benefit of the doubt, well, shows a lot about how cynical you are.  I would also warn that it is unBiblical for you to try to sew dissension and to point out “possible” specks in other eyes while there may be a plank in your own.

              • Sojourner_Truth

                According to your last two sentences you’re attempting to judge me.  See, the whole problem with the evangelical faith these days, where constructive accountability according to the bible is mislabeled as judgment? God Bless you brother…..

              • Drew

                By skipping my entire post I’ll accept your concession to my rebuttal.

                If I’m judging you by saying something you have done is unBiblical, why don’t you read your last post to me; it would appear you have done the same thing.

              • Sojourner_Truth

                You’re arrogant and hard-hearted.  “Now that you agree with my interpretation of scripture, we can move on to the real issue.”  What is that? 

                Do you mind me asking your age and background in the faith?

              • Drew

                Another post where you don’t respond to anything I say.  I would appreciate if you actually read what I say and respond, rather than ask for demographic information to judge me on.

            • Drew

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=qbE6Szyfxdo

              If you go to about the 2:40 mark, you will notice that the photographer is running behind Tebow as Tebow is running down the field, for what it’s worth : )

        • Drew

          The problem is a Pharisical interpretation of Matthew 6:5-6, and I would advise you to speak with some pastors about the passage before giving any more incorrect advice on it.

          Matthew 6:1-18 is about the difference between doing acts with the intent of pleasing God and doing acts with the intent of pleasing man.  Despite your protests, Jesus was not giving us more laws to follow.

          You can go to any of the three passages and muck them up with Pharisical interpretations.  You can say that Jesus is banning any form of righteousness that is seen by others.  Does that make it a sin to give money to a homeless guy on the street because other people might see you?  Should we not take up a collection in Church because all your neighbors know who puts money in the plate and who does not?  You can say that Jesus is banning prayer on the street or in Church.  Does that mean every Church in the United States is sinning?  You can say that Jesus is saying that one cannot look somber while fasting.  Does that mean if I choose to fast, and it were to affect me physically, that the minute I had a somber look on my face I was sinning?

          Was Jesus making illegal prayer in public or in Church?  Was Jesus making it a law that we can only pray in private?  No, and that misses the entire point of the passage (intent to please God versus intent to please man).

          Which brings us back to Tebow.  Is he a hypocrite – someone who is virtuous in public but not in private?  By all accounts, no.  Is Tebow intent on pleasing man but not pleasing God, someone who points to the sky or gets down on one knee to be seen by man rather than to praise God?  In my opinion, no.  There is a difference between your acts being seen in public, and doing the acts only so that they are seen in public.

          I think there is a real discussion that could be had about Tebow, which is where Kurt Warner is at right now.  On one hand, Warner admits that he would go with a different approach than Tebow.  On the other hand, Warner admits that he supports Tebow 100% and that he is doing nothing wrong.  I have no problem with discussing it as a matter of style and effectiveness.  However, this article and many of the comments have not been about that.  Rather, it is about purposeful dissension and finding a speck in a neighbor’s eye, and I don’t get it.

      • looking for light

        Personally, I was hoping that somebody would read my first post. And maybe respond. And tell me why I was wrong.  

        • Joemccullough

          I just read your post and have a couple of thoughts in response. Looking for light and for Christ are great choices but I don’t know that researching Christian websites is the best way to go about it. It would seem to me that this website and these articles and particularly their responses are not geared toward being an introduction to Christianity so much as a forum for discussion amongst believers about religious ideas within Christianity. Naturally, there will be some disagreements. While some folks use inflammatory language (which generally is used to cloak insecurity) in these discussions, I think you are being a bit extreme to say that they betray Christ’s commandment to love or to turn the other cheek. Within every spiritual community in the world, there will always be certain folks who are very rigid and dogmatic. Likewise, there will always be folks who demonstrate great humility and compassion. In fact, in all of our lives, we have probably all spent some time being both of these people. If you are looking to research Christianity, I think the only one who won’t disappoint you at some point is Christ. If you are looking to follow Christ I would say that reading the Gospels are a good place to start. If you believe what they say than I would suggest that a good next step is to develop a prayer life with Jesus and to ask Him to put the right people in your life to encourage and heighten your devotion. Whatever you choose, know that God loves you and that this love is not conditional to the whims and debates of Christian thinkers. May we all be more patient with each other and may God’s mercy be on all of us.

      • Rflorez63

        Missed the whole point! Don’t ya just hate it when people miss the point and then comment like they know something? Jesus and Tebow RULE whether he wins or loses some stupid but awesome game!

        • Drew

          Of course the point is being missed… but isn’t it more fun to point out a possible speck in a neighbor’s eye when you have a plank the size of Texas stuck in your own eye?

          • Rflorez63

            good point

      • simplyChristian

        “Dear Lord, I thank you that I am not like THOSE Conservative evangelicals. After all here’s what’s wrong with THEM…”  How “Pharisee-ically” uplifting.  

        Oh and thank you for explaining God’s thoughts and priorities, as well.

      • Alex

        Considering how many times you used “I” “Me” or “My” in this article, exactly who are you lifting up?

      • Sojourner_Truth

        Hijacked from another blog on the same topic.  I thought this guy made some great points:

        “Seems to me that the command of Jesus found in Matthew 6:5 & 6 is
        pretty explicit. It’s one thing to lead a group of worshipers in
        prayer; it’s quite another to intentionally pray alone in plain view of
        the public. The motive behind a Christian’s behavior should never be so
        easily called into question. Tebow’s time with God could be spent far
        more effectively in private, without the distraction of a throng of
        screaming fans. Unfortunately, Tim’s persona resembles that of an
        attention-seeking grandstander rather than that of a humble witness.
        There are far less controversial ways to let his light shine for the
        Lord. It is not a Christian’s job to incite controversy; rather, the
        purpose of one’s actions should be to try and bring folks together. By
        praying in private, Tebow compromises nothing as regards his beliefs. A
        simple statement of faith given to the media would let the world know
        where he stands. Along with leading a clean life, that’s all that is
        necessary. God Himself is wholly capable of taking it from there.”

        Of course someone will attempt to take this, flip it upside down, and shake it until it looks nothing like what it just said simply.  Now, go!  LOL

        • Mac

          The motive is easily called into question?  Then how is it that you so easily misinterpret his motive?  If you knew Tim better through what he has actually said and done off the field, you would realize that he does it in public to call attention to his Father God, not himself.  Jesus and the disciples did most of their healing miracles in public for much the same reason.  You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking you have the spiritual discernment to question what’s in the heart of such an incredible and godly young man.  The only grand standing being done is from you displaying your pride and arrogance in such flagrant fashion. Did you just recently start working for  the accuser of the bretheren or have you been “sojourning” with him for a long time?  Do us all a favor and put your posts on Yahoo or some other Christian degrading website where your anti-Tebow drivel will be in good company.       

          • Sojourner_Truth

            Why are you posting on a website where you disagree with their theology?  Your hate-filled language and unChristlike behavior towards me, whether you disagree or not speaks more about why you’re here than me.

            “Did you just recently start working for  the accuser of the bretheren or have you been “sojourning” with him for a long time?”

            I won’t comment on this because the bible has plenty to say about how we should speak to one another in love.  Now I’m Satan because you disagree with me?  The bible says that one day we’ll have to give an account for every idle word that we speak. 

            You are stirring up dissention by using hyperbolic language.  Cool your jets man.  We aren’t the first two Christians to disagree.

            • Mac

              You’re right about that post.  I apologize for the mean spirited comments.  I’ve heard so much ragging on such a refreshing and wonderful human being that it’s hard not to lash out.  The jets are cooled.  I’m sorry.

              • joemccullough

                I can’t speak for the others but I’m not ragging on Tim Tebow so much as questioning the reverance of “Tebowing” specifically. If he’s doing something wrong, that doesn’t make him a bad human being nor does being a “wonderful human being” mean that his public behavior should not be unbiasedly examined.

              • Drew

                No problem with questioning things, but it does matter in which way it was done and what topics you choose.  I think in this case, most people are crossing the line from questioning to accusing/judging.  I also think it is a bogus topic to concentrate on… other athletes have prayed on the sidelines, “Tebowed” during games, pointed to the sky, he is a man of high character, and there are simply just more important things to be discussing.

          • Amused

            Do us all a favor? Who’s “us all”? What’s great is that you said that right after accusing someone else of arrogance and then referred to their ideas as drivel. Brilliant consistency.

        • Drew

          “The purpose of one’s actions should be to try and bring folks together.”

          That’s the EXACT opposite of what the author is by writing that blog post in the first place.  Talk about climbing Mount Hypocrisy to the summit and planting a flag…

          • Sojourner_Truth

            I’ll post here to your comment above.  I am not attempting to ignore your posts, so I apologize if it seemed that way.  I don’t really want to argue on here.  The vast majority of my posts except for maybe one was to try and present another viewpoint to the people who disagree with the author.  Not in defense of him personally, but the few premises that he argued.  They are worth our consideration, IMHO.

            After a while, I get burnt out on the arguing.  I’ve been saved for over 30+ years and have seen and been a part of many theological arguments like this, which is essentially what we’re arguing over.  It’s not so much about Tebow that people are disagreeing.  It’s over century old debates that have been raging forever.   More specific to America the debate has been heated for decades on how our faith should be displayed/used/shared in public.  We all agree on winning hearts to Christ, it’s more a less a disagreement on how we should go about doing it.

            Many of the current views of evangelical Christians are not long held traditional beliefs of the church.  None of us would disagree that public prayer is wrong.  We do it in church, I myself often do it in restaurants, etc…..  The disagreement is over how it’s done, what’s communicated etc. relative to what the bible says.  In the same way, many right and politically left Christians overlap in so many areas.  There is so much common ground, but the divide often comes from how faith and politics should be mixed in the public sphere.  Many modern day evangelicals do more or less believe in a bold and as the author put it, “an in your face” style of witness.  Much of the push-back is related to the attack that they feel is coming from a secular culture that belittles their ideals and beliefs, while bolstering it’s own.  This understandable and true to a certain degree, and I understand why they feel and urgency to “earnestly contend for the faith”.

            Now, on the opposite side  there are evangelicals understand where the bold and in your face group is coming from.  While some, I believe would rather keep their faith secret (which embitters the bold people), others don’t struggle in that area.  Similar to the old Monastics  For many others though, the  problem arises from the fact that the boldness often crosses the line into things like condemnation (which is not of God), legalism and moralism.   When they see someone like Tebow and his many fans coming in droves their fear is that he’ll potentially alienate many of the souls that they were hoping to win to Christ. The foundation of much of their belief comes from the demeanor, and nature of Christ toward unbelievers that we find in the bible. We see the way that he dealt with Matthew – the tax collector, Zacheus, the women at the well, the criminal on the cross, the prostitute, the poor, and our hearts are drawn to the gospel.  We see a drect contrast between the character of Jesus and his dealings with non-believers vs. the religious zealouts.  The zealots are often the most outspoken, the biggest moral sticklers, the boldest with their face in public.  We are hesitant to look anything like that.  Now, Paul, Stephen, Apollos were bold with their faith.  However, it was still in a humble and loving fashion.  Not hipster, leftist hippiefied, but in a Christlike way.

            Tebow ‘s character and witness in many ways are similar, but just like Paul, myself, you and all others we’re prone to weakness and temptation.  Our boldness in Christ can often be tainted with self-seeking glory, theological gymnastic one-upsmanship, etc.  Sometimes that boldness gets mired down in pushing back so hard against the world that we forget that we have to love them.  As a matter of fact we’ve been talking about Matthew 5 so long that we often forget Matthew 6: 
            Love for Enemies
                43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45
            that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to
            rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the
            unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.It’s fine for us to hate secular culture, but we have to be careful in remembering to love secular people.  God loves them and he wants to reach them just like he reached us.  The last two paragraphs, LOL, describe why people like myself, and the author, who many blanket, and mistakenly simply refer to as “lefties” are concerned more about Tebow mania more than Tebow himself.  What concerns us a is religious zealotry candy coated in boldness for Christ.  One man bowing after scoring touchdowns as the hero for a thousand other football fans who want to stick it to secular culture and it’s adherents.  We want to love love those people, instead, into repentance.  We don’t like people mocking God by Tebowing in front of the great pyramids or the Mc’Donalds arches.  We don’t want to invoke hatred from people who perhaps otherwise may have listened to their friend who shared the gospel with them on a one-on-one level.  It’s much more effective.  If Tebowing does save some souls then that’s awesome!  But the best witness is the one shown to us in the bible.  Philip reading to the Ethopian Eunich in Acts, Peter and John healing the lame, Steven preaching the gospel BOLDLY,  Jesus unrolling the scroll of Isaiah and reading about himself, and Paul the great evangelist/missionary traveling around to teach people the good news.  That is the great commission.  Is it possible that Tebow is doing that in his own way, YES!  But let’s just not lose sight of our highest calling, and let’s be careful about following a quarterback more than we read the bible.  Let’s be careful about even waisting too much time arguing over that quarterback, which could also be a ploy of the enemy.  In that case, I wish i could erase all of my previous posts from here, but better yet let this be my last post.  I’ll check back for your reply, but this will be my last.Lastly, to everyone here – I’ve seen the word liberal used so often on this website that it really disappoints me.  It breaks my heart!  Jesus is not a conservative Republican and he’s also not a left wing Liberal.  He’s Jesus.  Let’s stop labeling our disagreements over the faith by political rhetoric, and just come together in unity knowing that we all only see in part.God bless all…..

      • Mac
      • Mac

        Just for the record, there’s a lot more to Tim Tebow than what it seen on the field.  Please check out the following website and perhaps do some reading about him before making your judgements.

        http://www.timtebowfoundation.org/

      • Drew

        Here are my final thoughts on the topic:

        First and foremost, among the atheists, the secularists, and the Liberal christians, the Tebow discussion is not about his style of witness but about whether or not he has the right to witness in public at all.  The atheists and secularists hate the light and hate witnessing, whereas Liberal christians believe that public witnessing is not allowed.  Their political beliefs trump their religious beliefs and since public witnessing might make people of other faiths or have no faith uncomfortable it cannot happen.

        Second and also importantly, I think that too often the debate among Christians is petty.  Too often, the debate is about Tebow and trying to convict him of sin, and I think that violates Matthew 7, the passage about finding a speck in a neighbors eye while having a plank in your own.  Too often, the debate is about Tebow’s fans and using incredibly obtuse sterotypes, misconceptions, and lies.  Really, Joe, many Evangelical sports fans promote style over substance?  Really, Sojourner, Evangelical sports fans like Tebow because we think he’s sticking it to secular culture?  Both of you may have a kernel of truth in your statements, but both of you are lying and sterotyping about how many Evangelicals have those beliefs.

        All that being said, I think there is a room to use Tebow as a starting point for a debate among Christians about how we should witness and how our witness is seen by other.  However, I think there is largely a libertarian aspect to style of witness – it’s not a matter of being right or wrong most of the time, but rather, a matter of effectiveness or a matter of personal preference.

        The good thing about the 24/7 media is that they have short attention spans.  Football season will soon be over, and the media will find something else to be ridiculous about, and the atheists, secularists, and Liberal christians that want to be critical will find something else to be critical about.  However, for the millions of Tebow fans that don’t fall into the ridiculous, misguided, unfounded, hateful sterotypes that writers like Joe and Sojourner are so eager to lump us into, we have found another source of light to inspire us.  I was excited about Reggie White, I was excited about Kurt Warner, now I am excited about Tim Tebow.  Not because I’m conservative, not because I am shallow, not because I like style over substance, but because here is a young kid that the world wants to give fame and money and power to, but all he does is remain of good character and give all the glory to God.

        And that is what the Tebow story is really about – a bright light in the world, that some want to see snuffed out or dimmed, but that most are inspired by.

        • Mac

          Spot on, Drew, in every way.  No point going further with this.  Peace

        • joemccullough

          NOT A LIBERAL CHRISTIAN, atheist or secularist…talk about lumping. Just a lover of Jesus who doesn’t like “Tebowing”…nothing against Tim personally. Prayer and posing should have nothing to do with each other but oh yeah, I forgot, y’all already claimed the last word so I guess that settles it. If only I wasn’t too late. (sigh)

          • Drew

            If you read my post again – with an emphasis on understanding and without hatred in your heart – you might have a different response to what I said.

            I never said that I had the “final word,” but rather said those were my “final thoughts.”  As in, there are 115 posts, at least a dozen are mine, and I have no addtional viewpoints to share or no more time/effort that I wish to put in to the topic.  Sojourner posted the same thing recently.  Most of us had our discussion and are ready to move on.  I have responded to everyone that has commented to me, including this one, but at some time we all have to move on.

            What makes you think I was talking about you when I mentioned atheists, secularists, and Liberal christians (those that put political beliefs ahead of religious beliefs; there are also Conservative christians)?  I never said that anyone disagreed was in that group; in fact, I said was room for Christians to disagree on the topic.

            So, read what I said again, slowly, carefully, without hate, and take another shot at commenting.

            • joemccullough

              Aww c’mon…without hatred…really? Maybe the last word bit was overly sarcastic but it’s ludicrous  to suggest that I or anyone else you disagree with here has been suggesting anything hateful. It’s not about hatred and never has been. Your “in conclusion” statement seemed to sugggest that there were 2 sides on this, one of which was made up of atheists, secularists and Christian liberals. I don’t think I was inferring. As to the “slowly, carefully” part at the end, that was as assumptive as the line about hatred so it’s fitting that hate should be thrown in again. All of this emotion and still the issue remains whether it honors Jesus Christ to celebrate td’s with a “prayer pose.” I honestly don’t care if the poser is Tim Tebow, Aaron Rodgers or Tony Campolo. Wishing nothing but love to you and Tebow and everyone else.

              • Drew

                By talking in caps, not responding to the majority of my post, and being sarcastic, and by not reading what I said, yes, you were angry… maybe hatred was too strong.

                I never said “in conclusion,” so don’t put words into my mouth.  In my last paragraph, I did not mean to say there were only two sides.  I said that the “real story” is about people wanting to dim the light or snuff out the light and people who are inspired.  I did not mention those who might not like Tebow’s style but thing he is within his right to do so and that it is not a sin when he does it.

                If you truly wish love for Tebow, then demonstrate it in actions instead of words.  Move on.

              • joemccullough

                “In conclusion” was just another way of saying “final thoughts”. Geez, we’re being a bit sensitive. The caps were to emphasize that pigeonholing/name-calling (atheists, liberal,  etc.) has no place in such a discussion. I’m gonna go find Tebow and give him a great big hug (actions instead of words)!

              • Drew

                My sensitivity comes from you trying to turn my arguments into strawmen.  Whereas I said “final thoughts,” meaning that I had nothing more to add to this 120+ comment debate, you thought it meant that I was trying to end discussion.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Whereas I said there is room for Christians to disagree (but not cross the line to accusing Tebow of sinning), you only looked at my part of atheists, secularists, and those who put political ideology ahead of Christianity and thought I was lumping “everyone” who disagreed into those categories.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

                It’s hard having an internet debate in the first place, it’s harder when we don’t seek to understand what each other is saying.

              • joemccullough

                I think that I do understand but either way it’s all good. Moving on.
                Peace 

        • Sojourner_Truth

           ”whereas Liberal Christians believe that public witnessing is not allowed.”
          False: We believe that it should not be done when the any part of the goal is to purposefully be seen by others.  We probably al pray often in public and often at meals with the family.  However, we don’t say those prayers in public hoping that people are watching us.  If they are, that’s great and we hope that it’s a witness.  If we really wanted to take it up a notch and be an even bolder witness perhaps we could get out of our seat in the restaurant and lie prostrate on the ground and pray loudly.  Instead, we sit quietly with our family and pray to God in thanksgiving.  The former would inevitably involve drawing attention to us of our own volition, regardless of my heart and “just wanting to witness to the lost” (it would be self-seeking, self glorifying).  The latter is God glorifying, while still being a witness.  The bible is abundantly clear on God wanting all the glory for himself.  “For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.”  
          &
          “I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images”
          &
          “In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.”  (not us but Him)

          This is what Joe is getting at in relation specifically to “Tebowing”. 
          We believe that doing it way too often crosses that line.  It’s an
          opinion, not a judgment.  If you still disagree just say – I disagree,
          but let’s not getting into calling each other liars.  I don’t think
          anyone here is intentionally lying. Also, Christians often have different convictions, see Paul’s advice on vegetarians vs. meat eaters is Romans.  If some feel it’s wrong then let them not do it, if others feel it’s right then let them do it.

          And for good measure we need to distinguish in the future between politically liberal and theologically liberal.  As similar as they may sound they are not one in the same.  If you are not familiar with it, look into it an I think you’ll understand why I mention it.

          Finally, God bless all of you and it was a terrific discussion.

          • Drew

            I said Liberal christian on purpose (big L, little c).  I was speaking about those who put their liberal political beliefs in front of their religion.  I hope you and Joe are not putting yourself into that grouping.  Reading comprehension is starting to go downhill as hearts are being hardened…

      • Doug

        When Mother Teresa in Calcutta expressed her faith in public by looking after the poor and destitute in Calcutta she’s applauded by the world.

        When Martin Luther-King expressed his faith in public by working for civil rights he’s applauded.

        When Tebow expresses his faith in public on the sports field he’s howled down by ‘progressives’ and told he’s harming the faith….pfft.

        Somewhat ironic eh?

        • joemccullough

          Oh absolutely, Tebow and Mother Theresa are exactly alike. His trials in the NFL are just like the ones she faced every day in Calcutta. And Dr. King too, the stuff Tim has endured is entirely parallel to being beaten, imprisoned and assasinated. Excellent points.

          • Doug

            Your sarcasm aside you’re totally missing the point. Im contrasting the world’s response and reaction to public witness not equating each circumstance. I would have credited you with greater discernment than I observed in your post.

            • joemccullough

              Perhaps, it’s the vastly different expressions of public witness that’s at issue. Most people think of Mother Theresa and Dr. King’s expressions of faith as loving sacrifices that made the world around them a better place for the destitute and despised. A touchdown celebration seems a little different. Were it not for these touchdown celebrations, Tebow would not receive any more criticism for his public expressions of faith than Kurt Warner or other vocal Christian athletes.

      ×

      TRENDING: 5 God Excuses to Avoid After A Natural Disaster>>