What if Jesus Meant All That Stuff?

Shane Claiborne

To all my nonbelieving, sort-of-believing, and used-to-be-believing friends: I feel like I should begin with a confession. I am sorry that so often the biggest obstacle to God has been Christians. Christians who have had so much to say with our mouths and so little to show with our lives. I am sorry that so often we have forgotten the Christ of our Christianity.

Forgive us. Forgive us for the embarrassing things we have done in the name of God.

The other night I headed into downtown Philly for a stroll with some friends from out of town. We walked down to Penn’s Landing along the river, where there are street performers, artists, musicians. We passed a great magician who did some pretty sweet tricks like pour change out of his iPhone, and then there was a preacher. He wasn’t quite as captivating as the magician. He stood on a box, yelling into a microphone, and beside him was a coffin with a fake dead body inside. He talked about how we are all going to die and go to hell if we don’t know Jesus.

Some folks snickered. Some told him to shut the hell up. A couple of teenagers tried to steal the dead body in the coffin. All I could do was think to myself, I want to jump up on a box beside him and yell at the top of my lungs, “God is not a monster.” Maybe next time I will.

The more I have read the Bible and studied the life of Jesus, the more I have become convinced that Christianity spreads best not through force but through fascination. But over the past few decades our Christianity, at least here in the United States, has become less and less fascinating. We have given the atheists less and less to disbelieve. And the sort of Christianity many of us have seen on TV and heard on the radio looks less and less like Jesus.

At one point Gandhi was asked if he was a Christian, and he said, essentially, “I sure love Jesus, but the Christians seem so unlike their Christ.” A recent study showed that the top three perceptions of Christians in the U. S. among young non-Christians are that Christians are 1) antigay, 2) judgmental, and 3) hypocritical. So what we have here is a bit of an image crisis, and much of that reputation is well deserved. That’s the ugly stuff. And that’s why I begin by saying that I’m sorry.

Now for the good news.

I want to invite you to consider that maybe the televangelists and street preachers are wrong — and that God really is love. Maybe the fruits of the Spirit really are beautiful things like peace, patience, kindness, joy, love, goodness, and not the ugly things that have come to characterize religion, or politics, for that matter. (If there is anything I have learned from liberals and conservatives, it’s that you can have great answers and still be mean… and that just as important as being right is being nice.)

Also by Shane Claiborne: Jesus, Bombs, and Ice Cream

The Bible that I read says that God did not send Jesus to condemn the world but to save it… it was because “God so loved the world.” That is the God I know, and I long for others to know. I did not choose to devote my life to Jesus because I was scared to death of hell or because I wanted crowns in heaven… but because he is good. For those of you who are on a sincere spiritual journey, I hope that you do not reject Christ because of Christians. We have always been a messed-up bunch, and somehow God has survived the embarrassing things we do in His name. At the core of our “Gospel” is the message that Jesus came “not [for] the healthy… but the sick.” And if you choose Jesus, may it not be simply because of a fear of hell or hope for mansions in heaven.

Don’t get me wrong, I still believe in the afterlife, but too often all the church has done is promise the world that there is life after death and use it as a ticket to ignore the hells around us. I am convinced that the Christian Gospel has as much to do with this life as the next, and that the message of that Gospel is not just about going up when we die but about bringing God’s Kingdom down. It was Jesus who taught us to pray that God’s will be done “on earth as it is in heaven.” On earth.

One of Jesus’ most scandalous stories is the story of the Good Samaritan. As sentimental as we may have made it, the original story was about a man who gets beat up and left on the side of the road. A priest passes by. A Levite, the quintessential religious guy, also passes by on the other side (perhaps late for a meeting at church). And then comes the Samaritan… you can almost imagine a snicker in the Jewish crowd. Jews did not talk to Samaritans, or even walk through Samaria. But the Samaritan stops and takes care of the guy in the ditch and is lifted up as the hero of the story. I’m sure some of the listeners were ticked. According to the religious elite, Samaritans did not keep the right rules, and they did not have sound doctrine… but Jesus shows that true faith has to work itself out in a way that is Good News to the most bruised and broken person lying in the ditch.

It is so simple, but the pious forget this lesson constantly. God may indeed be evident in a priest, but God is just as likely to be at work through a Samaritan or a prostitute. In fact the Scripture is brimful of God using folks like a lying prostitute named Rahab, an adulterous king named David… at one point God even speaks to a guy named Balaam through his donkey. Some say God spoke to Balaam through his ass and has been speaking through asses ever since. So if God should choose to use us, then we should be grateful but not think too highly of ourselves. And if upon meeting someone we think God could never use, we should think again.

After all, Jesus says to the religious elite who looked down on everybody else: “The tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the Kingdom ahead of you.” And we wonder what got him killed?

I have a friend in the UK who talks about “dirty theology” — that we have a God who is always using dirt to bring life and healing and redemption, a God who shows up in the most unlikely and scandalous ways. After all, the whole story begins with God reaching down from heaven, picking up some dirt, and breathing life into it. At one point, Jesus takes some mud, spits in it, and wipes it on a blind man’s eyes to heal him. (The priests and producers of anointing oil were not happy that day.)

In fact, the entire story of Jesus is about a God who did not just want to stay “out there” but who moves into the neighborhood, a neighborhood where folks said, “Nothing good could come.” It is this Jesus who was accused of being a glutton and drunkard and rabble-rouser for hanging out with all of society’s rejects, and who died on the imperial cross of Rome reserved for bandits and failed messiahs. This is why the triumph over the cross was a triumph over everything ugly we do to ourselves and to others. It is the final promise that love wins.

It is this Jesus who was born in a stank manger in the middle of a genocide. That is the God that we are just as likely to find in the streets as in the sanctuary, who can redeem revolutionaries and tax collectors, the oppressed and the oppressors… a God who is saving some of us from the ghettos of poverty, and some of us from the ghettos of wealth.

In closing, to those who have closed the door on religion — I was recently asked by a non-Christian friend if I thought he was going to hell. I said, “I hope not. It will be hard to enjoy heaven without you.” If those of us who believe in God do not believe God’s grace is big enough to save the whole world… well, we should at least pray that it is.

Your brother,
Shane

—-
Shane Claiborne is a prominent author, speaker, activist, and founding member of the Simple Way.  He is one of the compilers of Common Prayer, a new resource to unite people in prayer and action. Shane is also helping develop a network called Friends Without Borders which creates opportunities for folks to come together and work together for justice from around the world.

This article originally appeared in the November 2009 issue of Esquire

Advertisement


Print Friendly

About the Author

Shane Claiborne

Shane ClaiborneShane Claiborne is a prominent author, speaker, activist, and founding member of the Simple Way. He is one of the compilers of Common Prayer, a new resource to unite people in prayer and action. Shane is also helping develop a network called Friends Without Borders which creates opportunities for folks to come together and work together for justice from around the world. His most recent book is Red Letter Revolution, which he co-authored with Tony Campolo.View all posts by Shane Claiborne →

  • Scott McDaniel

    The sentiment is sincerely appreciated, which is why I consider RLC to be a worthwhile source of thought and information, even while still being post-Christian.  

  • Mary Jennings

    This is a very nice, concise article to share that lets folks know that some followers of Jesus are very aware of the need for change in the Church.  Thank you.

  • Padawans3

    Great, great message Shane!!! This is how I, my husband and our boys have felt for so long and it seems so few really hear what you are saying!! We see the reasons so many folks have for not believing and every mouth has uttered the reasons you numbered above.  What it all comes down to is, they are watching us, they are seeing despicable behavior from Christians and then laughing when Christians tell them about the unconditional love of Jesus, because so many of us put so many conditions on that love!!

    Many blessings Shane!! Thank you for sharing this!

  • Anonymous

    I love the thought that We as followers of Christ are not perfect just forgiven- over and over again. The easiest way to hide is to throw a smoke screen and to often those who profess to be most righteous are hiding behind billows of dark evil smoke!  Jesus states many times that there will be weeping an gnashing in the after life.  Christians must and have to look inward through prayer and guideance from the Holy Spirit to be disciples and more often than not, show Jesus through actions not words!  I feel we do a great injustice by professing, if not leaning toward a false profesy, that there is not eternal consequence for our life journey.  Through arrogance and haughty actions we  will push away those we are commanded to be bringing into the fellowship of believers. 

    How many will allow pride and stupity as a  ticket to Hell while carrying a Bible in the other Hand?  The Bible says Many!

    Love thy Neighbor as thy Self.   READ READ READ  The greatest in the eyes of Jesus are those that are the greatest Servants.

  • Medicalevangelist

    Shane, the Bible that I read not only tells me that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world (John 3:17) but it also tells us why.  3:18 “He that believes is not condemned, but he that does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” No need to condemn those who are already under condemnation.  Instead we need to love them enough to warn them rather than just hope that God’s grace will somehow overlook their lack of trust in Christ.

    • Khadroe

      But that’s the exact reason why we “non-believers” have such a hard time with Christians. We are battered by believers instead of loved unconditionally, and isn’t that what being Christian is really all about? Loving unconditionally? Be who you are, but please don’t expect us to come along for the ride just because you’re on it. 

      • Visaza1990

        @e142ab55eb5cc2f69e87bd85f94f0e92:disqus , your right.. we do need to love non-believers unconditionally because God sent us to love , not Condemn. So christians are all different, after all we are human we are not perfect. Hopefully someday you will believe, not because someone told you to but because you have seen the miracles from God yourself. Be blessed

      • Roshinisamuel

        You are completely right. We are called to love unconditionally. However, loving unconditionally also means speaking truth in love – not with condemnation but rather an earnest desire to share Jesus (the best part of our lives as believers) with those who don’t believe. We’re not perfect so forgive our fumblings and inability to communicate our passion or the times where are passion becomes condesending or pressuring.
         
        Lord, teach us how to communicate your love for others in word and in deeds.

      • Jennifer A. Nolan

        That’s right, Khadroe!! WHY put up with this abusive behavior, or cave in to it?? If there is a Jesus in Heaven, and He has any plans for you, He will certainly not work them out through loudmouths and emotional pressure artists. I have always loved the law of this country that insists on freedom of religion; and though there’s a place for admonishing sinners(gay rights and criminal justice reform, anyone?), it’s not wherever you hear some harmless person saying they don’t believe in God.

  • http://twitter.com/timburdon Tim Burdon

    Thank you so much Shane!

  • Athiest in New England

    It is easy to believe in Jesus, as Ghandi did.  But it is the belief in heaven and hell that so often corrupts the living.  As a tool for personal transformation, salvation is a powerful metaphor.  But those who claim a monopoly on superstition become intolerant of others.

    • Marc Kivel

      So ignore heaven and hell…the idea that we should live so as to be worthy of some future reward strikes me as quite the opposite of what Jesus meant when He siad the Kingdom of God is at hand…

  • Colejude

    This is powerful and I hope lots of people read it.

  • Nextstarfish

    Listening to what Shane has said in recent years has lead me to reconsider my own life and the extent to which I’m really following Christ.

    I now ‘do’ more – with my church, for social justice, for the environment . . . along with Tony Campollo and others, he has been one of the voices that’s lead me to see the importance of  working for change in this world.

    Coincidentally I wrote a short blog post about him last week - http://bit.ly/phlj77

    We need more voices like his in the Christian community.

  • Stanstillwhite

    I think you got it right Shane.  Salvation in a nutshell:

    1. “God WILLS that ALL mankind be SAVED” (I Tim. 2:4). But will His will be done?
    2. “Thy WILL B-E DONE…” (Mat. 6:10).
    3. “GOD I-S LOVE” (I John 4:8). But won’t love fail when it comes to saving everyone.
    4. “LOVE N-E-V-E-R FAILS” (I Cor. 13:8).
    And with 1Tim 4:10 bookending it, its not hard to understand. Love does indeed WIN!

  • LT

    It is true that the Lord Jesus Christ was not sent to condemn the world the first time He came, He came because it was condemned ALREADY, keep reading after John 3:17, it reads:

    “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe
    is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the
    only begotten Son of God. 
    And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world,
    and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”  (John 3:18-21)

  • https://compassiondave.wordpress.com Dwells

    Amazing, that despite all the hypocritical Christians there are in the world, that I was still able to come to faith in Christ Jesus.  And you know why?  Because (they) had nothing to do with it ~ it was all Jesus. Somehow His Holy Spirit guided me to follow Christ and not Christians.  That’s how He rolls.

    Know Jesus and know that we Christians are seriously flawed.

  • Jim

    The flesh is such a powerful thing.  Fortunately, God is greater.  This desire to be good, to be religious if you will, to be “a better witness for Jesus”…….it is all driven by the flesh.  

    Is God eternal?  If you are a possessor of the Living God?  If you can answer with a definitive yes, then you can relax.  We can all relax. 

    First, if God is eternal he goes every place before us.  If He dwells within us, well He is present.

    Nothing is out of God’s hand or control.  Agree?

    So there is no reason to apologize to anyone when declaring the truth of God.  No matter how crazy the style or approach might be.  Don’t you think that God could and does put a stop to things like so called crazed street preachers?  Don’t you think he allows that also, no matter what the results might be.

    My suggestion to myself, and others, is get our eyes off of ourselves.  Rest in the goodness God.  

    Being a so called activist, very easily and frequently be a flesh trip that is dressed up in a Jesus uniform.

    As I heard before, “when I hear the word movement (especially in a Christian context), I think of an outhouse”.

    Shalom in the name of Jesus

    • Marc Kivel

      The apology is for failing to be Christ-like in meeting and greeting Others, Jim…in not listening…in not asking….in presuming to know what another wants or needs when we ourselves are often sleep walking through life…and if you are going to argue that nothing is out of God’s hand or control, Jim, then you realize you make God an unindicted co-conspirator with all of the evil that occurs? I somehow doubt that is your intent….

  • Stamos727

    He just spews random thoughts from other people. I’m pretty sure I read half this article in a donald miller book. Guess I can become a Christian author too if I just repeat other peoples’ sayings. And his friend is going to hell if God doesn’t change his heart. That sucks, but unless he accepts Jesus that’s where he’s going. That should motivate us all to more bodly proclaim the Gospel. Maybe that preacher on the street wasn’t so wrong unless he was acting like a self righteous Pharisee. Paul himself proclaimed in public about God’s grace to him and warned people about hell.

    • rdc

      Can you point where in Paul’s letter that he warns people about hell?

    • PeaceByPiece

      Wow what’s with all the negativity?? It’s that’s kind of attitude that turns people off. Who cares about his title just be thankful he is actually made an effort to put this out there and it is impacting people. I pray that God changes your heart because your judging in a negative way someone that God is using. You should be encouraging and loving on people not ripping them. It’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice. God’s greatest commandment… Love God and love people. And if youve forgotten the true meaning of God’s unconditional love maybe you need to go back and read 1 Corinthians ch.13 again. Verse 5 says: Love is not ill-mannered or irritable and puts others before self. It’s not, “Love is throwing my ill-mannered, unwarranted, negative, unhelpful opinion in where completely unneccessary instead of giving kinds words and positive encouragement to a fellow brother in Christ”.

      That’s all true, however warning and scaring people about the reality of hell is not what we are meant to do. The bible teaches us that we are meant to go out and spread the ‘good news’ with the world (hence why there is even a bible translation called the good news) . It does not tell us to go and spread the ‘bad news’ which is “if you are not saved you are going to spend eternity in hell” how is that good news? We are called to SHOW the love of God and if needed use words… Infact I’ve come to the conclusion that “People don’t care what you know until they know you care” when people see that you genuinely care for them through your character that is when they will have respect for what you have to say and actually listen.. And it is then we can tell them about God, and God is “love” so if you don’t know what to say or how to answer their questions that’s okay then just tell them about God’s immense unfailing love and ask if you could pray for them. People rarely get saved by our words anyway it’s usually with a demonstration of God’s mighty power or have an encounter with Him usually through his love or presence or an open vision or revelation. In the end God is after our whole heart not just a “decison” to accept Christ. So how willing are we to lay ourselves down and sow seed and invest time into other peoples lives so they might get a transformed heart and renewed mind so that they might get the chance to spend eternity in heaven…
      God bless.

  • Gloria

    I enjoy reading your work, Shane, but it occurs to me that a large number of non-Christians already *know* that God is love.  Maybe it’s time for Christians to shut up, and start living like Jesus instead.  I don’t recall Christ ever saying, Okay, all you disciples, go and worship in a great big church with 3 different preachers preaching in rotation every week, and a different kind of music at every service, and be sure to pass around those pretty offering plates and baskets to collect more money so we can pay the ungodly(!) cost of heating (or cooling) (or rebuilding) this darn place and also pay more staff to do the work I have asked YOU to do… and oh, by the way, leave the building empty during the week, but everybody be sure and come back Sunday morning so we can all feel good about ourselves.  

    Dear Christians – come back to the CHRIST in you. Go one on one.  Feed the hungry.   Clothe the poor.  Come back to the basics.  For Jesus’ sake.  The Kingdom of Heaven is within you.

    • David

      I agree but at the same time let’s keep passing the plate because feeding the hungry cost money.

  • Pingback: “What if Jesus Meant All That Stuff?” by Shane Claiborne « First Congregational Church Youth Ministry

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MMSFOVR6HW6N3FVGJLJ6W7KVTY Rodger

    Excellent!!!!

  • http://inkindle.wordpress.com Jeedoo

    Loving this.  Keep preaching!  

  • Hullo

    No need to apologize. I already know that Christians are quite unlike Christ, and that fact actually has very little to do with the reason why atheists do not believe, don’t give yourself so much credit! Atheists don’t believe because the religion and the Bible stories and the rules just don’t make sense. Nothing adds up. Religion (not just Christianity) flies in the face of logic and reason and atheists don’t believe that you should take something that is unexplainable and attempt to generate your own fluffy, comfortable explanation just because it makes you feel better. Atheists, for the most part, value truth and realism over false hope. Do you know how many gods there are out there? Most people who believe in the Christian god do so because they were born in a particular region of the world. If you were born in Iraq, you would quite likely be a Muslim. So I guess it sucks to be all the people born in a region where Christianity is not as rampant as some other religion, because you know what happens if you die and you’re not a Christian…. 
    Oh, and do you know how many of virgin-birth stories existed BEFORE the story of Christ? There is a staggering amount. The virgin birth story isn’t at all unique. And it isn’t really a new thing for humans to make up stories, is it? Especially not when they have some sort of agenda. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    The thing that bothers me the most is that Christians claim morality as their own. Morality does not belong to you. Most atheists and agnostics I know are extremely moral. But so many people tend to see non-believers or sort-of-believers as ‘living in sin,’ ‘evil,’ ‘working for Satan.’ Morality is NOT Christianity or visa-versa. Quite often they conflict. More often than Christians wish to admit. The ”fruits of the spirit’ is nothing more than a label. It presumes that people must have a god in their life, well, not just ANY god, but ‘THE’ God (which is laughable, considering how many gods exist, as was previously noted) in order to practice these morals. Peace, patience, kindness, joy, love, goodness – these are all things I believe in and are completely separate from your religion and all of the others. Atheists CAN be patient, peaceful, kind, joyful, loving… and yes, good. Shocking, I know. But, as I said, atheists also value TRUTH. I know some people cling to a hope of living forever, a hope that someone loves them infinitely and is always watching them (though I fail to see how the god of the Bible is a loving character – he surely doesn’t demonstrate the fruits of the spirit very often) and a hope that there’s MORE than this life because they feel that it makes this life worth living. I like to have hope as much as the next person, but that doesn’t mean that I want to be fed lies and given hope that is false. If one of my loved ones has cancer and the prognosis is not good at all, I want the doctor to inform me of this. I do NOT want the doctor to tell me that my loved one will surely beat it, no questions asked. I guess that’s the difference between me and many of you. So many of you would rather cling to that hope despite whether or not it has any validity.

    By the way, I’ve just been wondering… what’s wrong with Zeus? Allah? What makes YOU think that YOU have found the correct god, when you haven’t given the thousands of others a chance? Trust me, other people believe in their gods just as much as you believe in yours. Possibly more.

    Isn’t that a bit arrogant? 

    I have always found it interesting how every single atheist I’ve ever talked to knows more about the Bible than most priests, pastors, ministers… never even mind the ‘laypeople’ of the Christian religion. It’s because so many of them have STUDIED. QUESTIONED. DARED TO CARE ENOUGH TO FIND OUT. Rather than just accepting what many of them were taught, and quite frankly brainwashed to believe from a very young age. 

    I don’t want to be disrespectful, but I thought it’s only fair for me to be able to voice my opinions as well. I am not trying to convert, er, un-convert? anyone – but I truly do believe in the power of THINKING. All I want is for people to expand their thinking a bit and begin to study not only their own religion (to see what it is that they’re actually subscribing to, often it’s quite barbaric and sad – as you’ve noted) but OTHER religions and ideas as well. If you do that, it doesn’t make you a bad person. It makes you human and it sets you on a journey to freedom from man-made rules and mind control.

    Best of luck to you all!

    • Mpatrick9376

      No one is judging here or attacking atheism. Shane is simply apologizing for how Christians act, and the effect of this. I am studying other religions currently at OKCU and have found that it made my faith in Christ deeper. I was challenged in my faith and decided to go into full-time Christian ministry. Being a Christian doesn’t mean you are not an intellectual, or hate science. I see science and logic as an exploration of what an Almighty God can create. When it comes to creating the universe, the God I know did it with a big bang. I love science and space and always have. You jumped to a conclusion about the Christian faith as quick as you said Shane jumped to a conclusion about what atheism is. I can’t explain my faith to people, but I can show it to them

    • Jennifer A. Nolan

      I have read all of your points before; actually, one of my favorite books of philosophy is THE REASON-DRIVEN LIFE, Robert Price’s non-theistic rejoinder to Rick Warren’s THE PURPOSE-DRIVEN LIFE.  As a believer, I have only this to say in reply: I’m sorry.  With less of the haranguing and emotional abuse so many missionaries inflict in America and around the world, the fascination of Jesus might have been more obvious to thoughtful people like you; we should also have developed more respect for those of other faiths and cosmologies.  We might have escaped a lot of guilt for oppression and mass-murder that way; and a lot of American First Nations might have flourished together with us whites.  Believing that we are right and everyone else is wrong is one of our most deadly sins; may we enjoy steadfast protection from it!! 

      Thank you so much for this comment of yours; it’s a great humbler.

    • G Glenn

      I have seen and read evidence in many places, over and over, that the most powerful force in the known universe is the human mind.  The reason the “placebo effect” exists is simply because people who sincerely believe they are being healed, are healed by the power of their minds, of their own belief.  Jesus, in the Bible, is quoted as telling Peter that he could do as much as Jesus did, and more, if he had ‘faith the size of a mustard seed’.  I have begun to wonder if the experience of what happens after death is what the person truly believes, deep down, that they truly deserve.  If they believe they deserve bliss, perhaps they do.  If punishment, likewise.  And if they believe they will cease to exist, well, perhaps they do, by the force of their own belief.

    • Josh W

      Excellent responce, of course, atheists believe for their own reasons!

      But I would say that although many people do not study the bible very thoroughly, they do often rely on others who do. And they do not always agree with these people, but often queery things and ask for explanations, and then hold to what they feel is true.

      I don’t think it’s too much of a guess to suggest that you also rely on people to help you intepret the bible, that your understanding of the bible as barbaric and full of nonsense has been encouraged and given breadth by reading the works of atheistic writers.

      I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, so long as you do not consider yourself to be at the natural end result of questioning, assuming that all questioning will lead to atheism, and there questioning stops.

      In the spirit of openmindedness, please consider this idea: That some people do find sense in the bible, they read it and find it profoundly helpful, insightful and matching their experience, and full of lessons, realised hope and practically proven wisdom that lead them to accept it. That some people, after questioning, examining alternatives, and looking at their own experience, choose to go with the bible, both eyes open.

      You asked about whether God shows love in the bible, and while it is true that there are events sanctioned by God in the bible that seem incredibly ruthless and hard hearted at first glance, there are also vast examples of mercy and patience, as well as goodness to the Jewish people, who he choose to make an example of, dealing with them in an intensified way. That story seems continually unfinished, as any human story is, with no happy ending in sight, but the biblical record of God’s dealing with them shoes many ups and downs with coherent patterns, with God acting to help those who respected him, and went after the standard of behaviour and attitude to others that he approved of. In the purest expression of his character, as Jesus, God showed even more his patience and his careful holding back of judgement coupled with his giving attitude giving gifts to people regardless of their moral standing (in the comunity or otherwise).

      My own understanding is that there is still a distance between us and understanding the morality and motivations of God, that will not totally be resolved until the story of the bible is finished, and that evidence of Gods goodness is part of what christians are here to produce. But that’s a conversation better had in person, so I’ll have to leave it there.

      I’m glad that you believe in virtues similar to the christian ones, and seek to live a moral, truth loving and peaceful life. There is help to achieve that if you want it, which I have found supremely helpful.

      In a way I think it would be brilliant if atheists and christians competed in a “love-off” trying to not only appear, but be more loving, considerate wise and humble than each other! But as much as I wish you success in that, I’d rather be being inspired by your levelheadness and thoughtfulness within the church.

      • Josh W

        Wow
        I wrote this badly! Reading it back it’s really badly spelled and seems a
        little backhanded! To clarify, if that can be done by now,

        christian
        virtue=awesome,

        your
        comment above=a little prejudiced by antitheist assumptions, but admirably
        seeking balance and openmindedness, and acting with love and patience

        makes
        me think, wow, I wish you were in the church

        and
        try to point out some flaws in the assumptions.

         

        Kids
        don’t get brainwashed, they get taught by parents and teachers who love them,
        and want the best for them. To ignore that what you are talking about is just
        education from a different paradigm to yours is to twist your understanding in
        an unhelpful way.

         

        And
        even if it’s true that most early years education is about children
        uncritically absorbing information (which suggests you haven’t seen real
        children being taught something recently, they ask questions all the
        time
        !), people convert to christianity as adults, or turn away in
        their teenage years and come back, or convert in those same teenage years when
        turning away from their parents’ atheism. It’s not just for kids. :)

         

        In
        addition there’s the stuff I wrote before about actually reading the bible.

        So I don’t agree with the assumptions, but what I hope is that if you see
        christians living a uniquely powerful expression of the christian virtues,
        powered by functional churches of mutually-supporting believers, although you believe what you believe
        for your own reasons, you’ll be inspired to think again about us.

        Good luck anyway.

        • Josh W

          Man I wish there was an edit button on this; copied that into word to spell check it, came out with mental formatting, ah well!

    • Zubi Zubi Lexusl

      Hullo, great to see a self-proclaimed atheist reading Shane’s article. Shows you are seeking answers in the right place. God who created you is leading you here.  Your words are clear and you are open, when you become a believer and follower of Christ, you are going to be one that produces much fruit.

  • Bjwa1

    I recently came across a comment on the Good Samaritan that it should be called the Bad Samaritan. Jesus as Shane says saw the good in the bad people. Let’s talk about the Bad Samaritan and that will open up conversations.

  • Daron Babcock

    Great article. I think it sums it all up pretty well.

  • Tom Servo

    Shane I agree with you christians do scare away alot of people.But to me its the christian and the christian culture and far to many churches who suffer from the delusion that we must belike the world and do what it does to win them.Be ye seperate is not in their lexicon.Whatever the worlds doing or saying their imitating it.A form of godliness but no power.Why would the world want to join its not a light its a miiror of darkness ie the world.Christian Harvest parties and mosh pits and christian bars. Do not love the world or the things that are in the world if anyone loves the world te love of thfather is not in him.Christians have the same divorce,bankrupcy,rates because they do things the way the world does.So the unbeliever says what hippocrates and losers.Shane way to so many people here quote Ghandi,if you believe christian apologist Dr Robert Morrey Ghandi as part of his religion use to roll in his own feces and sleep with preteen age girls which he said his detractors of his agree ghandi does but hate Morrey for bringing it to light to westerners. 

    • Marc Kivel

      Inasmuch as the World is part of the Creator’s Creation, perhaps you should tell the Potter he makes trash for pots….

  • Pingback: facebook of sex

  • Avy

     Why do non-followers of Christ always blame followers of Christ and use us as an excuse for not wanting to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. We are forgiven by God’s grace and they also have the opportunity to make the same choice to accept Him as their personal Saviour. You either want to love God or you don’t want to. STOP blaming followers of Christ for opting not to. It is not going to work on the day of judgement. I would love every person on this earth to go to heaven, but the BIBLE is very clear on what you have to do to get there. I see followers of Christ are also starting with this, so they are condemning fellow Christ followers. STOP running other followers of God down. God Loves everyone but it is for everyone to love Him back and accept Him in their hearts and live accordingly.

  • Pingback: Earth-Shattering Evangelism «

  • Struggler

    Hello Hullo,
     
    You’re post is interesting. I am a Christ Follower.  I am a heavy intellectual and have struggled, since I can remember, with my faith.  I went on to study Philosophy and Sociology at a secular college and university.  I’ve thought, studied, read books and books and books by so many..atheist, agnostics, other world religion leaders. I ve listened to and watched documentaries and lectures. I thought by 5 year plight would lead me elsewhere and was open, as much as possible, to that of which you speak…
     
    Asking me to not be a Christ Follower is like asking me not to be human.  I couldn’t get rid of it…as much as I wanted to…so many nights, grasping for that which was more sensical.  Out of any of the other philosophies and/or religions I studied, each one seemed as irrational as the other.  And I actually found that there is rational argument for God’s existence.  (That is neither here nor there)  My point: Christ followers are strugglers and struggle intellectually.  Christ is in my blood.  And so just as you question how any one whom thinks, independently, could adhere to this…I answer, I honestly tried.  This intellectual drive continues, but I can’t escape my soul and heart.  I, too, am human. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/DeepNarcosis William J. Green

    Whatever else this well-written piece is it is an indictment on Christians for BELIEVING God in spite of or despite the many Truths preachers and other Christians say about Jesus that so turns off and “turns away” till now non-Christians.

    Said differently, your thesis is that Christians are so bad about living and sharing their faith that there should NOT be any of us — we should have all turned each other away from the faith, having nothing to say or do that would attract one other to Christ.

    That we’re kind of foolish for believing Christ, and not very 21st-century modern-day savvy, hip and cool to believe the 1st-century Gospel. Maybe even a bit dumb for embracing a faith that arose before our understanding of quantum mechanics, a mere 5% of the “stuff” that comprises the universe, and American Idol. Part of me is tempted to feel ashamed for making such an uniformed decision predicated upon a prop depicting my future without Christ. Someone please remind me again what Saint Paul said about “foolishness” first to the Church at Corinth, and then eternally to all of us.

    Yours is a very anthropocentric view of faith. Implicit in this thesis is the notion that faith is NOT primarily a gift from God but a self-conjured up decision we make quite apart from God; and that there are no God’s Elect, only self-appointed elect.

    If there is any Truth to the preacher’s echo of God that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God; that there are none righteous, no not one; and that the way is narrow that leads to life and that very narrow gate is Christ Himself, and all others taking a broader path are walking themselves to perdition, then that coffin with a fake dead body was not only fascinating but poignant and true. I certainly would have stopped and listened to him if only because his props depicted finality, mortality and eternity. When these stop being fascinating and worthy of our questioning and curiosity we have plunged ourselves into hopelessness and fascination with only wood, hay and stubble.

    Christ and His Words are attractive – they do not return void. If we echo His words, and some of them were not entirely unlike the preacher’s props, and seek to emulate Him in His life and ministry, enjoying parties and wine and women and song, there is no reason to fret if so many turn away and then blame Christians for doing so; they turned away in droves from Jesus toward the end of His earthly ministry and He promised us that if they hated Him they would certainly hate us.

    As I understand it this is NOT our problem so much as it is God’s prescience, foreknowledge and eternal plan. Why be surprised when what God foretells occurs?

    This is not to say that we are not to love God and our neighbor; this is a timeless presupposition and Truth. It is only to say that when people turn away from bold and courageous preachers that we need not look for the reason within his coffin with a fake dead body, we need look inside the minds and hearts of those whose minds are closed off to God and whose hearts are cold and calloused toward God, preferring to erect their own totem poles depicting their preference for a god with themselves firmly perched atop them.

    They are in all likelihood iconoclasts, idolaters and/or atheists, plagued with thoughts and beliefs that the only salvation is temporal and here on earth provided either by themselves or a generous but fiscally profligate government, and that all goes cold, dark, and oblivious at their deaths, with no conscious and experiential eternity to speak of. We and they can NOT both be simultaneously correct, now can we?

    Is “Sinners in the hands of an Angry God?” any less True today than it was when first preached on July 8, 1741, 241 years ago?

    • Marc Kivel

      William, the idea of being sinners in the hands of an angry god was more about its author’s self-loathing and self-righteousness than the nature of God 2,000 years or 241 years ago. It is contrivance and psychological manipulation… Frankly, salvation wasn’t about heaven or hell 2,000 years ago nor is it today…to believe such a thing is to ignore what Our Master, Jesus, taught and how he lived and died. It was and is and will be about establishing in our minds, and hearts, and way of living the Kingdom of God here and now. I trust God enough to not worry about tomorrow but to be satisfied with today…He has not failed me even when I have failed Him…Paul and Augustine and the Scholastics and Luther and Calvin and Zwingli and Knox and all their kith and kin have done nothing for the body of Christ but put armaments in the hands of folks to damage others…I would much rather eat dry bread and drink water and Ripple with poor folks today than worry about being at the Great Banquet because I kept a closed and armored mind…God will put me where I am meant to be…have you so little faith?

    • Marc Kivel

      And btw, William, being “bold and courageous” is not to the best of my knowledge how Jesus describes Himself….

  • http://www.facebook.com/vicky.chase.98 Vicky Chase

    Jesus
    wanted social justice for the world. I have discovered a new book
    that shows how His message was covered up by His Gentile followers.
    The church has blinkered its past. It’s no secret that Jesus strove
    to bring in the kingdom of justice here on earth and his followers
    implemented it in the communal society we read about in Acts 2:44-47.
    The church’s dirty secret is that the Jewish followers of Jesus
    continued to hold his vision dear, later influencing such sects as
    the Bogomils and even, according to their own oral traditions, the
    Doukhobors. After exterminating the Jewish followers of Jesus, the
    church’s historians buried this history of justice-seeking but an
    author by the name of Lawrence Goudge has exhumed their story and
    presented it in Cover-Up: How the Church Silenced Jesus’s True Heirs.
    This book does the world a great service by illuminating for the
    first time this vital part of the history of social justice. I found
    it at http://tinyurl.com/69cazll
    .

  • http://www.facebook.com/rory.s.graves Rory Spence Graves

    This was beautiful. It really made my Easter to read this. Thank you!

  • Pingback: God on the Beach | Gleaning the Fields

  • Pingback: What if Jesus Really Meant All that Stuff | The Williams Family Blog

×

TRENDING: Five Reasons Christian Parents "Lose" Their Children