Red Letter Christians

Will ‘Love Wins’ Win? We’re Early in the First Inning …

by Brian McLaren Monday, March 28th, 2011

Because of my own experience as a writer, I’ve been anticipating the baptism in hot water (or worse) that Rob Bell was about to experience with the publication Love Wins. And because of the old saying that it’s not the attacks of your critics but the silence of your friends that hurts the most, I’ve been looking for an opportunity to speak up in Rob’s defense.

I couldn’t help but predict who would be first at bat with critique, what they would say, and how they would say it. A prominent Southern Baptist leader, Dr. Albert Mohler, put it well: “We Have Seen This All Before.” His response to Rob’s book, in an article under that title, will be judged by fans a veritable home-run of a response. It stirred up a few responses which I’d like to share.

Dr. Mohler rounded first base by articulating a claim that goes along these lines: “Our view is the biblical view, so all who oppose it oppose the Bible.” Here’s how he said it:

We have no right to determine which “story” of the Gospel we prefer or think is most compelling. We must deal with the Gospel that we received from Christ and the Apostles, the faith once for all delivered to the church. Suggesting that some other story is better or more attractive than that story is an audacity of breathtaking proportions. The church is bound to the story revealed in the Bible — and in all of the Bible … every word of it.

Of course, Dr. Mohler is right to say that the gospel isn’t simply a ball of silly putty we can mold to our liking (although sadly, any cursory study of church history shows how often we Christians have done so). But he is wrong to assume that Rob is saying his story is better than Jesus’ story. Rather, Rob is suggesting that Jesus’ original story (as he interprets it) is better than the version many hold and proclaim today. He’s making a distinction — nuanced to some, obvious to others — between the actual original gospel and the imperfect versions or approximations of it that any of us proclaim. He wants to be bound to that original story rather than to a popular (perhaps the most popular in some settings) version of it.

Now communication is nearly always tricky, as any of us who are married or are parents know. The speaker has a meaning which is encoded in symbols (words) which then must be decoded by the receiver. That decoding process is subject to all kinds of static — for example, interference from the biases, fears, hopes, politics, vocabulary, and other characteristics of the receiver or the receiver’s community. If the receiver then tries to pass the meaning — as he has decoded it — on to others, there is more encoding and decoding, and more static. That’s why, with so much encoding and decoding and re-encoding going on, the challenge of communication across many cultural time zones is downright monumental. (By the way, if you say that’s all overcome by good scholarship or the Holy Spirit, you still have a problem, since so many people who sincerely seek to follow the principles of good scholarship and/or the promptings of the Spirit come up with such wildly different versions of Christianity.)

Our versions (mine included) are all, then, human interpretations of the gospel of Christ and the apostles, and human interpretations of the original message are not exactly the same thing as the original message. Some are more true to the original and some less, but no articulation of the gospel today can presume to be exactly identical to the original meaning Christ and the apostles proclaimed. That doesn’t mean we can’t proclaim anything with confidence, but it demands a proper and humble confidence rather than a naive and excessive confidence.

That excessive confidence hides behind a popular saying: “The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it.” To many ears, the saying sounds admirable. But wouldn’t the saying be a bit more honest, and a bit less admirable, if we phrased it like this: “The Bible says something which I interpret in a certain way, and I believe that interpretation, and that settles it”?

I know Rob, and I’m quite certain he (like many of us) started questioning the interpretation of the gospel he received not because he was looking for a more palatable or popular version. (The truth is, he was already wildly popular as a megachurch pastor and bestselling author. A controversial book like this risks his popularity — it doesn’t guarantee to increase it.) He started questioning the interpretation/version he received because he became convinced — from studying Scripture itself — that the version he received wasn’t the best interpretation. He (and many of us) may be wrong, but if we’re wrong, it’s not simply because we are trying to pander to “contemporary culture” (a problematic term in itself … which one? Fox News culture? Bill Maher culture? Christianity Today culture? Christian Century culture?). Yes, that’s Dr. Mohler’s interpretation of our motive — but his interpretation, I suggest, isn’t infallible.

Next Dr. Mohler rounded second base with this: ” … Bell’s argument is centered in his affirmation of God’s loving character, but he alienates love from justice and holiness … Love is divorced from holiness and becomes mere sentimentality.”

Not so fast on at least two counts. First, many of us are concerned about the traditional doctrine of hell for reasons of justice and holiness, not mere sentimentality. Even putting God’s loving nature aside for a moment, it’s very hard to square the idea of eternal conscious torment with a just or holy God, especially when Jesus repeatedly encourages us to trust God as a just and holy father (in contrast to human fathers who, Jesus points out, can be downright evil). If a human father decided to throw his child in a fireplace for just ten seconds as punishment for disobedience, we wouldn’t fault the father simply for being unsentimental: we would say such behavior was unholy, an act of torture in violation of our most fundamental sense of justice. Any definition of justice and holiness that involves being unsatisfied unless the imperfect are suffering eternal agony seems to many of us as unworthy of a human being and if so, how much more unworthy of God whose justice must be better than our own.

That doesn’t solve the problem, and it doesn’t address all the biblical texts that those who defend the traditional view can quote from memory. (Which is a legitimate topic for civil discourse — discourse that I hope will come in the next innings of play.) But it does demand that the question be opened so the traditional interpretations of those texts can be reconsidered — alongside the other often-marginalized texts that argue for a wideness in God’s mercy and a compassion in God’s justice. Having grappled with those texts myself, like Rob I found it more reasonable and faithful to the full witness of Scripture to conclude that love wins through God’s restorative (not merely punitive) justice. And no, that’s not traditional universalism because it works within a very different framing narrative than traditional universalism, exclusivism, and inclusivism all assume. (I’ve tried my best to address that issue of framing narrative in my books Everything Must Change and A New Kind of Christianity.)

It’s out of line to label such concerns for the justice and holiness of God as mere sentimentality.

We should also notice what Dr. Mohler thinks Rob is being sentimental about. He doesn’t accuse Rob of being overly concerned about real people supposedly writhing in absolute, utter torment at this very moment. Nor does he accuse Rob of being overly concerned about this troubling image of God as inventor and enforcer of eternal conscious torment. No, he accuses Rob of being sentimental about the people who are offended by this idea:

There is no reason to doubt that Bell wrote this book out of his own personal concern for people who are put off by the doctrine of hell.

No, I don’t think so. This isn’t simply a matter of “personal concern for people who are put off.” This is personal concern for our ancestors, descendants, friends, neighbors, relatives, and even our enemies who are put in … thrown in hell to experience torment at the hand of God forever and ever and ever. It’s insulting to use the words “mere sentimentality” in relation to this kind of concern for our fellow human beings.

Next Dr. Mohler races around third base with the popular epithet liberal. He accuses those of us who differ with the prevailing view on hell as, “Pushing Protestant Liberalism — just about a century late … This is just a reissue of the powerless message of theological liberalism … This is the traditional liberal line.”

Now if “liberal” simply means “not conservative,” then I suppose that’s OK. But the term liberal used in this way evokes a whole narrative that is nearly universal in many fundamentalist/Evangelical circles. Mohler sums it up smartly:

By the time the 20th century came to a close, liberal theology had largely emptied the mainline Protestant churches and denominations … Liberalism just does not work …

From childhood I was taught this liberal-mainline-decline narrative (and its counterpart — the conservative-Evangelical-growth narrative). I’m ashamed to say I never questioned it for years. But the narrative, like all prejudices, turns out to be terribly vulnerable — especially if you actually meet many of the people it purports to describe. Consider these possible rebuttals (some of which are quite popular among mainliners, some not):

  • Perhaps it wasn’t liberalism that killed mainline Protestantism. Perhaps it was institutionalism.
  • Perhaps it was an excessive concern among many mainline Protestant leaders to protect their “mainline” status of privilege and power.
  • Perhaps it was complicity with nationalism, a complicity that was exposed as faulty in the 20th Century by two world wars and Vietnam.
  • Perhaps it was liturgical and organizational rigidity.
  • Perhaps the fall of mainline Protestantism had more to do with complacency and a lack of visionary leadership than it did with a willingness to question traditional interpretations of Scripture.
  • Perhaps mainline Protestantism isn’t dead or even dying: perhaps mainline Protestants have entered a latency period from which a new generation of Christian faith is trying to be born. (And perhaps conservative Protestantism is about to enter that latency period too.)
  • Perhaps mainline Protestantism isn’t failing at all, any more than the U.S. Postal Service is failing. (It’s actually doing more work than ever, with proportionately fewer resources than ever.) Perhaps it’s just that the times have changed, and First Class mail isn’t what it used to be, and mainline Protestants think they’re in the stamp-and-envelope business instead of the communication business.
  • Perhaps mainline Protestants are in decline primarily because they haven’t been as good marketers as Evangelicals. Perhaps mainliners haven’t “pandered” to customer demands as well as Evangelicals. They haven’t adopted new technologies — first radio, then TV, then the internet — as savvily as Evangelicals have.
  • Perhaps mainline decline is related to higher college attendance rates — rates that, by the way, Evangelicals are now catching up to. Perhaps conservative Christianity will fare no better in holding young adults who get a college education than mainline Protestants were. Perhaps the graphs will end up in the same place, with just a 30- or 40-year lag.
  • Perhaps mainline Protestants started to decline when they became prophetic — agreeing with Dr. King about the institutional evils of segregation and the Vietnam war. Perhaps being prophetic, which involves calling people forward to a better future, is inherently more costly and less popular than being conservative, which involves calling people back to a better past.
  • Perhaps Evangelicals started to grow when they filled in the same role mainline Protestants used to occupy: the civil religion of the United States.
  • Perhaps mainline Protestantism collapsed because of hypocrisy and disconnection from real-life issues, and perhaps Evangelicalism is edging ever-closer to a similar collapse.
  • Perhaps mainline Protestantism was the religion of the American countryside and small town, and it declined as rural and small-town populations declined. And perhaps Evangelicalism is the religion of the American suburbs, and its fate will rise and fall with suburban life.

Now I think the reasons for mainline decline are many and complex, and I wouldn’t bet my life on any one of these possible rebuttals alone or even all of them together. But taken together, they show that the “conservatives grow and liberals shrink” formula might give a false sense of superiority to one group, and a false sense of inferiority to the other. (My personal belief is that neither Evangelicals nor mainliners nor Roman Catholics nor Pentecostals nor anybody else is or has the full answer. I think Fr. Vincent Donovan had it right when he said we shouldn’t leave others where they are, nor should we try to bring them to where we are, as beautiful as that place might be. Instead, we should go with others to a place neither we nor they have been before. Where we need to be is not where any of us currently are; we are all being called higher up and further in – a journey I try to describe, by the way, in Naked Spirituality: A Life with God in 12 Simple Words.)

Finally Dr. Mohler strides across home plate with a point I actually agree with: “At the end of the day, a secular society feels no need to attend or support secularized churches with a secularized theology.”

True enough (if by “secular” you mean “without any reference to God”), but the rub for many who identify as conservatives, I think, is that for them, secularism only comes in one flavor: liberal.

To more and more of us these days, conservative Evangelical/fundamentalist theology looks and sounds more and more like secular conservatism — economic and political — simply dressed up in religious language. If that’s the case, even if Dr. Mohler is right in every detail of his critique, he’d still be wise to apply the flip side of his warning to his own beloved community.

Yes, many of us are rejecting theologies that seem to dress up secular conservative ideology in “Sunday best.” But that doesn’t mean we want to put secular liberal ideology in robes and collars instead. Of course not. We’re seeking — imperfectly at every turn, no doubt — an incarnational theology, a theology that brings radical good news of great joy for all the people, good news that God loves the world and didn’t send Jesus to condemn it but to save it, good news that God’s wrath is not merely punitive but restorative, good news that the fire of God’s holiness is not bent on eternal torment but always works to purify and refine, good news that where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.

If some like Dr. Mohler want to reserve the terms Evangelical, orthodox, and even Christian for those who hold fast to the traditional view of hell, they seem to have the power and moxy to do so. Those of us who can’t in good conscience defend that view any longer are certainly not condemning people who can’t in good conscience stop defending it. But we are hoping at least to be given the courtesy of a fair hearing. To impugn our motives (that we are selling out the Bible for the pottage of popularity), to reduce our concerns about love and justice to sentimentality, to dismiss us with the “L” word and a questionable narrative surrounding it, and to demean as “secularized” our attempt to articulate a fresh vision of the gospel probably won’t pass muster as a fair hearing.

So after the first inning of responses, I imagine Rob Bell feels a lot like I have on many occasions: it’s not that the critics have accurately understood what I’m trying to say and have explained why they disagree. It’s that they’ve misrepresented what I’m trying to say and have explained why the misrepresentation is audacious and ludicrous. Thankfully, there’s still time to see the conversation continue and deepen, and Dr. Mohler can be thanked for getting the first inning off to a strong and exciting start. If we seek true understanding and give one another a fair hearing all along the way, knowing we’ll all strike out sometimes and even commit an error or two from time to time, whoever “wins,” love will win.

—-
Brian McLaren is an author and speaker who’s new book is Naked Spirituality: A Life With God in 12 Simple Words


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  • Cnroun

    I’ve been following the “Bell Controversy” out of the corner of my eye in the last few weeks, mainly amazed at how much uproar this little book has caused. I’ve been disturbed by the blatantly immature responses of Christian leaders on both sides of the divide. Really, Piper? A farewell tweet to Rob Bell? Aren’t you a little too dignified for that?

    This article looks to me like another example of this “type before you think” problem. Brian, you’re a published author. I could barely make heads or tails of this piece. 22 parenthetical statements! 22! In bullet points! I respect your desire to come to the defense of your friend, but this was completely ineffective.

    I am not yet ready to make strong statements about Bell’s book. But I feel the need to plead with my brothers and sisters to demonstrate thoughtfulness and deliberation as you react to the controversy. While we debate eternal damnation, let’s remember that babbling fools come to ruin (Proverbs 10:8).

  • Carl

    Well said Brian.

    Thank you.

  • Noel

    I have to admit that I haven’t ever questioned the theology of hell. I have been intrigued by the banter surrounding the book and it has come up in conversations with my friends. Since I was recently confronted with Christian Way of Peace, I am still struggling through all the ingrained responses I have to that so I’m not sure my spirit can take both at the same time.

    All that said the thing that has been going through my head for a long time now is a conversation I had in an adult Sunday School class when I was young and in youth ministry. The author of the curriculum we were using made the statement that John 14:6 (“No one goes to the Father except through me”) really means that Jesus is just an easier way to the father. My response: “what a cop out!” Which was immediately met with, so you want to condemn everyone else to hell?????

    I was appalled my words were interpreted that way! I see the burden of that statement to be on me (and other Christ followers) not on those who don’t know or walk with him. It’s not about being afraid of hell, but of sharing the amazing freedom, grace, transformation, and love of the present (not that pie in the sky isn’t pretty awesome as well). Of course I was naive to the fact that a lot of people thought in just those terms, that they were somehow superior to “non-believers”. That just spits in the face of what God did through Christ – making Himself to be human, a servant so that I would have an avenue to Him.

    hhhmmm – maybe the beginnings of my struggle to work through my ingrained responses to the theology of hell have already begun.

  • http://twitter.com/jlundewhitler josh lunde-whitler
  • Bliamkratky

    I can’t make the concept of hell go away. I didn’t invent it. Logically it can be argued that there can be no heaven if there is no hell. In all of creation there are seen opposites, nothing stands on its own except God. He has no opposite. Reward and punishment/wrath are replete throughout Scripture. Like Mr. Campolo, I can’t ignore Romans Chapter One without thinking of Paul as a vengeful homophobe. Personally, I don’t believe we have the right or anyone has the authority to suggest that Paul was anything other than God’s chosen messenger to His Church. As does Mr. Campolo, I have to ask the GLTB community that is seeking reconciliation with God to seriously embrace its implications. I have too embrace these implications for myself with just as trembling a heart. We are all the same. Certainly there are interpretive issues, cultural paradigms, symbolic misfires, the depths of which need to be plumbed. Sinners against the Holy Spirit, whatever the “life choices” they make, whatever their scriptural interpretation may be, will stand before some judgement seat. There will be some “wailing and gnashing of teeth.” That’s what “it” says.

    I admit to never having been comfortable with God being wrathful. I’ve always been unsettled with the idea that my grandparents from one side of my family are burning in Hell’s fire; after all Grandpa had mini strokes and Grandma had dementia. I am also not comfortable with streets of gold and crowns bejeweled with people and deeds. I struggle with “God’s right hand”, his thrown, seas of glass, angelic hosts, archangels, heavenly hierarchy…and the list goes on and on and on. So much symbolism, so much opportunity for misunderstanding exists. Yet, we believe, we are told, that God is not the author of confusion. I continue to struggle with what Christ meant by not being a judge.

    Truth be told; Rob, Brian, Albert, Tony…I don’t know. I do believe that I have something to fear from God. Asland was good but he was not safe. If others have no fear…then they have no fear. If God reaches back and redeems ALL, praise God from whom all blessing flow! I hope He will, I really do. I just don’t know. All I can really do is somehow exercise faith in Jesus Christ and honor him with true religion. To not do so is intuitively wrong and I sense danger. I’m going to call my widowed mother now and give her some encouragement. Then I’m going to find some at-risk youth and see if I can give him or her a helping hand.

  • http://twitter.com/jlundewhitler josh lunde-whitler

    Glad you’re wrestling; also very glad to see you live out the Gospel—-
    I’m wondering if you’ve considered: Do consequences have to = eternal conscious torment? Or could “judgment” involve/refer to something else?

  • Watchman

    Like Bruce said… I don’t know. I’m not comfortable with the doctrine of Hell either. But, I know it’s there. Jesus talks about it, so it’s got to be there. As to who goes there the Bible says there will be many, even those who profess Christ with their lips. The Bible doesn’t say that all who reject Christ will go to Hell. What the Bible does say is that He is the only way. The way to what? The Father. And, we all know the Father resides in the Kingdom of Heaven. I wish and I hope that everyone will go to Heaven. But, the Bible says that not everyone will. What can we do? Simply tell others about the Good News of Jesus. What is the Good News? The Good News is that Christ died on the cross in order for us to be reconciled to a holy God. While there is indeed Bad News, namely Hell. I would much rather focus on what the Good News is and tell them all about it. That we actually have an opportunity, a second chance, to live for all eternity within the presence of a holy and loving God who loves us so much, that He sacrificed His one and only Son so that we can be together with Him forever. That is News worth living for and sharing with the whole world.

  • Dan Moynihan

    Here’s my two cents. In Dostoyevsky’s Brothers Karamazov The Grand Inquisitor examines Jesus. During this examination the Inquisitor observes that to control the rabble that is the church on earth what is required is Majesty, Mystery and Authority; all of which the church embraced, all of which Jesus rejected in the wilderness during His temptation. God never wanted man to love him because he felt compelled to. Jesus never sat on a throne on this earth, He washed feet. It is not a matter of heaven or hell, but love. Our God loves us too much to force us to love Him. He would never ask us to love Him because we were overwhelmed by His glory and we were cowed into it. He created us for fellowship. There will be those who meet Jesus face to face and they will politely decline His offer of humble love in exchange for darkness. It will tear God up, it will horrify Him, but He will not force anyone into love. God may well save all animals, but He would never lower man like that for our own good. It is a certain nobility He has placed in us, the Imago Dei. I ain’t no preacher man so don’t go off on me, I am just a guy. Love does win.

  • Clementine.

    Rob Bell is being defended; he, and you, just don’t know by whom. He is being defended not by being on his side, necessarily, but by pointing out to a screed of theological know-it-alls that Jesus gave us but ONE commandment, and they are ignoring and disobeying Him in the way they have taken Rob Bell to public task. It is offensive, to say the least, if not entirely unscriptural.
    I would also like to add a note to your list of ‘perhapses’. I know for a fact that many have left the (Protestant mainline denominations) church for one simple reason: the lack of Agape. You can pour it in, drain yourself, be told how unusual you are, and in the end, give up. Not a few have been this road. Where there is no Godly love, where theologians, teachers and pastors have analyzed and explained it all to pieces without response, where the Holy Spirit is not welcome or only as long as He fits in a pre-determined confinement and where the concept of love is confined to ‘doing good deeds’ and ‘rightly so’ there is only the spirit of religion at work. There is a far deeper work going on in ‘the church’, for years already, than an argument about a book and Rob Bell’s theology. Through disillusionment and heart ache, God is calling out those who would love and follow Jesus and leave behind the darkness and confines of religion. And Love is winning, ‘out there’, and has been since well before Pastor Bell wrote his book.
    Maranatha.

  • Sue Hatcher

    The true Gospel doesn’t need decoding or encoding…even a child can fully grasp it: Jesus came to this earth to seek and save mankind who are lost in a sinful state and in a kingdom of darkness. We all need to be born again into the Kingdom of God, and because we can’t do this for ourselves we accept the sacrifice of Jesus who died and shed His blood in our place. This message is told over and over again in the Gospels and the letters. It is really quite simple. “Anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” Rev 20:15.

  • http://twitter.com/WendyMcCaig Wendy McCaig

    Like Brian, I would love to see a real honest conversation on this topic. However, I don’t know how you can have an open and honest dialog when folks like Mohler so quickly dismiss any idea that questions their position. I have tried to have conversations with Mohler types for years and it is impossible to get people who think their way of reading scripture is the only way, to actually shut up long enough to consider other possibilities. I think the key to any conversation is absolute humility. The truth is none of us are God and none of us know with absolute certainty the answer. We are all simply speculating based on our own thoughtful and prayerful reading of scripture. If we enter into dialog remembering that none of us sees clearly, I think we could make some progress but I doubt that will ever happen given my experience with the ultra conservative side of our tradition.

  • Brian

    I like the way I heard, or read, N.T. Wright explain hell. The gist of which is that those who continually reject Christ in their life will one day here from Christ “Thy will be done.”

  • Brian

    hear, not here

  • Yeahbut50

    Well, i have not read Robs book, and good chance i never will, but if we would just quit teaching new Christians to read the commentaries, (which btw should never have been added to the Bible anyways) and listening to all our misguided ministers so much, we may just get somewhere…eventually. When you read the WHOLE Bible, without the commentary, and without the help of misguided ministers, but WITH the help of God, you come away knowing that God WILL save everyone, past, present, and future. Some, it seems, will be first, and others will be last. My Hope has changed to Belief on this most important matter. So much in fact, that i now pray for the Devil, that he may also one day be refined, and join ALL the rest of us in Heaven. i am already quite convinced that this will also happen, by the strong arm of God. If i choose to speak of this to Christians, they usually get pretty upset. Especially the ones who have a bigger appetite for vengeance, than God.

    Read the Bible my friends. Try to erase from your mind, everything you “know for sure”, and read it again for the first time…if you can. You may be amazed at who God really is.

  • http://www.faithchallenge.blogspot.com Bruce Kratky

    Josh, Yes I have consider those questions. I do not know. In plumbing the depths of Christ’s command to not be the judge I am continually confronted by the personal (me) orientation of Scripture. Plugging my name in whenever I can I find God’s words both frightening and comforting. I no longer fear for myself, the fear I feel is for others; yet I can not, nor desire to be a judge. Only love and the actions associated with true agape allow me to feel good. This seems to be the work associated with Gospel and in Genesis work was good. My motivations are founded on not only the joy side of life’s equation, but also the fear side. That I fear for others is in fact a love based motivation and not founded in arrogance. Recipients of that form of motivated love sometimes don’t understand this. It can be touchy.

    Are there eternal consequences for some actions?…probably yes. God uses His faithful to witness on His behalf and others come to Him and are saved. That is an eternal consequence for sure and a most positive one at that. That there are eternal negative consequences to some actions seems logical. Then again I do not know. Logic is not what God cherishes, it is faith. How much faith is needed? It seems safer to think personally that there might be some eternal negative consequences for some behavior. To allow for the possibility makes all of Scripture more personal and helps me resist the temptation of some believers to become arrogant…a serious flaw. The issue goes to the sovereignty of God.

    I have studied judgement some. You may find that in Scripture the concept focuses around the idea that no one has the right to; 1. make an accusation, 2. be the jury, 3. be the judge, 4. sentence, 5. and be executioner of that sentence all by themselves. This allows for the concept of discernment to exist and not be confused with “being judgmental.” It also allows for community rule and the “judging” that must needs be done to keep order. Christ did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. We find ourselves two thousand years later and do require corporate judgments. This allows for our entire legal system to coexist with Christ’s commandment to judge not.

    I hope that this is helpful. I do continue to wrestle. At fifty-eight, almost nine, years of age and having been a Christ follower since the age of six…it is sometimes tiring. Still, I can not image my life without knowing God’s love. I would either have died long ago or I’d have been a real mess today. I’m still alive, and that is good. I do find myself somewhat messy at times, but not a “real” mess. ;-)

  • steve

    Is “love” what we say it is, or is it rather a term that God uses to describe Himself and thus
    makes room for every characteristic and doctrine that He has revealed in scripture. Hell is as real as heaven in God’s word. Love, as God sees it, makes room for His wrath because God is love. Perhaps the thing that we call love should be renamed.

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